Vegan Myth-Busting Power Round

Karina Inkster

You're listening to the No Bullshit Vegan Podcast, episode 216. What happens when a dietitian, a doctor, an agrologist, and a fitness coach enter the same podcast studio? Well, in this episode, you'll find out. Welcome to the No Bullshit Vegan Podcast, myth-busting and evidence-based advice to help you kick shit with your health and fitness on a vegan diet. Here's your host, Karina Inkster. Hey, welcome to the show. I'm Karina, your go-to, no BS vegan fitness and nutrition coach. Thank you so much for joining me. Exciting news for you. I just learned that this podcast has been nominated for one of the biggest awards in the vegan scene. the 2026 VegNews Veggie Awards. My podcast is on the list with a bunch of other incredible vegan shows. So if you'd like to support the No BS Vegan podcast, please take 30 seconds and cast your vote at VegNews.com. And while you're at it, you can vote for your favorite plant-based products and celebrities and personalities. It's a whole thing. So podcasts are on page six of the survey. You'll see mine there as an option. And voting is a concrete step you can take to support my work here. I made the decision eight years ago when I started this podcast to not have sponsors or advertising. I think it can dilute the host's credibility, and it's just annoying as a listener to have to go through a bunch of ad content. So I pay out of pocket for hosting, professional editing, recording software, et cetera, to bring you a completely free vegan health and fitness resource. All this to say, if you find value in this show, please go vote for it at VegNews.com. I'd appreciate that so much. A few weeks ago at the beginning of January, my team member in my business, Coach Zoe and I, hosted a five-day no BS reset event. Some of you listening now might have been part of that. We focused on five sustainable health habits, including a daily five-minute strength snack, and 100 people signed up. It was seriously so much fun, and the community aspect of it was fantastic. Now, as part of this reset, Coach Zoe and I hosted a live panel event on Zoom for participants. And we had so many excellent questions from our audience that we couldn't answer them all in our time together. So in today's podcast episode, we're answering the remaining questions for our guests, Jade, Vesanto, and Corey. And then the next episode will be Coach Zoe and me answering questions that were left for us. Dr. Jade Dittaro is a lifestyle MD, hospitalist, and environmentalist. Vesanto Melina is a registered dietitian and award-winning co-author of 15 books. Corey Davis is an agrologist interested in the socio-environmental impact of food, an animal rights advocate, and co-author of Plant-Powered Protein. All my guests today are long-term vegans, and all of them are amazing humans I'm so grateful to have in my network. Make sure you go to our show notes at nobullshitvegan.com slash 216 to connect with our guests. Here's our conversation. Hello, I am here with Corey, Vesanto, and Jade, and we're going to do a power round, if we can, of questions that weren't answered when we did our last panel event, which was actually not that long ago. We got so many excellent audience questions, we could not answer them all in our Zoom session in the time that we had. So we decided to do a follow-up with all the questions. We're going to see how many we can get through. And so I'm going to do questions for Corey, Vesanto, and Jade. And then Coach Zoe and I are going to meet separately. And there's a couple of questions for us that we're going to go through as well. So jumping right in, we have a question from Maureen, who was on our call. And she's asking either Jade or Vasanta or both about omega-3s. So she says omega-3s increase risk of atrial fibrillation. Does microalgae do that too with a history of AFib? How much is safe?

Vesanto Melina

Well, what I understand is that the microalgae are where the fish get their DHA and EPA. And so the fish aren't like the ideal source. If you go right to the omega-3s, the DHA, the long chain omega-3s. to the microalgae source, then you're getting the original. Now, it turns out that you do need some that really help your cells, your brain, and we thought even 20 years ago that you could convert adequately from the shorter ones, which is like hemp, chia, flax, but it turns out that conversion is very limited. So for somebody who has to limit it, it's good to stay under thousand, that's actually the ideal amount, or be down to 500, but you don't have to completely avoid them. In practice, probably a good idea not to completely avoid them, but don't go into the higher amounts, 2000, 4000, which sometimes people are trying. And we don't have an official RDA or recommended intake for those. I find the research is very lively on this. topic. And so the person who's doing that should just stick with 500 or 1,000 of combined EPA and DHA.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

Like as a doctor, I'm like, this was not something we were taught that omega-3s contribute to atrial fibrillation. If anything, there's been some literature showing that adequate amounts of omega-3 could reduce risk and not that there's harm. Vesanto, is there, am I correct on that? It's just don't have too much, just like anything though.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, exactly. And omega-3s are a very lively area of research. Like you find different recommendations coming out. So I think it is a good idea to have some, but not to go way up. There's this company called OmegaQuant, they're actually in Dakota, and they will check your omega-3 level. And it costs about 50 bucks, they send you a kit, you prick your finger, send it in a blood sample and they tell you how much your serum, DHA and all these long chain omega-3s are. And I found it very interesting. I had to tweak mine to get up to the right level. And Brenda Davis, my co-author, Corey's mom, she did the same thing and we both found we want to up it a little bit. And so we got our own to the right level. Yeah, omegaquant.com.

Karina Inkster

Oh, that's good intel. I've never heard of that. So this is super useful. useful. And 50 bucks, that's not actually bad. I thought it'd be more than that.

Vesanto Melina

We can spend 100 and they give you more details, but I didn't care about all the other details.

Karina Inkster

Fair enough. Yeah, you know, when someone says, you know, this is a lively area of research or we're still developing research on this, that's a good sign because what we don't want is someone to be like, well, this is the answer, end of story, not looking at how the research is evolving. So I think that's a good sign for sure. Yeah. And also, it's kind of interesting how a lot of the discussions that we had in our first Zoom panel, you could tell that there were connections between health and veganism and the environment and agriculture. Like all the things that we represent in this room aren't just randomly smashed together. Like planetary health is related to personal health and vice versa, right? So I'd love to get Corey's insight on one of the questions that we got. We're all about myth busting here. here, this, no BS vegan, we're trying to have evidence-based information and bust myths that are still out there in 2026. So one of the big myths around agriculture that we come across all the time, whether or not it relates to health, is, local food always more sustainable than imported plant foods? So a lot of folks are talking about local food in terms of health, right? Like supporting small scale farming, et cetera. But I'd love to hear your perspective on local versus imported plant versus animal.

Cory Davis

Yeah, that's a really, really good question. The short answer is no. Local food is certainly not always more sustainable. And the science is actually very, clear on this. What matters far more than where food comes from is what the food is and how it's produced. And across dozens of lifecycle studies, transport usually makes up a relatively small share of food's environmental footprint, like just a few percent, like maybe up to 5% in some cases. The biggest drivers for environmental impacts are land use, methane, fertilizer use, and feed production, which means that animal products really dominate the scale of impacts, regardless of whether or not they're imported or local. So a locally raised steak almost always has a much larger footprint than imported plant foods like beans, lentils, grains, or tofu.

Karina Inkster

So I did an AMA, Ask Me Anything, on Reddit recently. Someone there was saying, okay, so if we all went plant-based tomorrow, not just in Canada, but let's say at least North America, if not globally, what would actually change in agriculture.

Cory Davis

Oh goodness. Well, we would have to create the appropriate infrastructure to support such a plant-based transition. So to be clear and honest, agriculture supports livelihoods, cultures, and rural communities. Any successful shift to a plant-based food system would have to be gradual. It would have to be just. The evidence is super consistent. Producing food directly from plants requires far less land, water, and energy than producing food through animals. So we would create lots of new spaces that could potentially rehabilitate wildlife, for example. So less pressure on the land, fewer emissions, less nutrient losses, lots more room for ecosystems and biodiversity to recover. So that's really important. In fact, it's my belief that if we truly want to address the biodiversity crisis, reducing demand for red meat, it's a necessary step. Animal agriculture is the lead driver of biodiversity loss globally. due to its land use. So that would also be a very important component for climate action, right? By reducing agricultural emissions, but also improving the land's ability to remove carbon from the atmosphere and store it. So that's a really fun thought experiment. I think the real opportunity isn't about removing farmers from the system through such a flip the switch kind of event, but it's about supporting them through change. So I would want to support farmers through income supports, new markets, and land uses that keeps those rural communities viable. I think if we want lasting change, it shouldn't come from such a shock, but rather from, you know, solidarity and bringing people along with us. But yeah, fantastic thought experiment.

Karina Inkster

It is basically a thought experiment. I mean, we all as vegans are like, oh, wouldn't that be amazing? But the reality is slightly different. So I appreciate that. For sure. Okay, so I've got two related questions for Jade, and Vesanto can jump in as well. They're about hypotension and hypertension. So Tanya asks, are there lifestyle changes and or changes in diet that help reduce hypertension?

Dr. Jade Dittaro

And then Richard asks.

Karina Inkster

Any advice for hypotensive folks aside from volume expansion? And maybe you can explain what that is as well.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

This will be both of us for sure jumping in. But hypertension, I mean, the non-dietary stuff, a lot of it is getting adequate sleep, stress reduction, or like we all experience stress, but it's how do you react to it, right? So our own modification of our stress response through meditation, mindfulness, and when you get the adequate sleep, it helps. moderate intensity exercise, exercise over time has been proven again and again. But the dietary stuff, you do want to limit salt, eat more whole plant foods, but there's a couple little hacks within there too. So there's literature to support 2 tablespoons of ground flax every day in your diet, as well as two cups of hibiscus tea. So as I'm trying to get people to I don't want to go on a pill. I don't want to go on a pill. I'm like, well, you can't like erase all the other changes you need to make in your diet just by adding ground flax and hibiscus tea. But those are a nice adjunct that have strong support. And the internal medicine specialists that I work with that we all do lifestyle, that's a huge part of what we encourage people to do. But I feel like a broken record sometimes telling people, reduce salt more whole plant foods, but that really is the secret sauce for that. And then hypotension, a lot of people will then veer towards, oh, well, I should be adding some salt in my water. And I'm like, let's just start with water. Are you adequately hydrating? Especially first thing in the morning, a lot of young people, also a lot of elderly, huge blood pressure drops. They get lightheaded when they stand up. are you hydrating? Are you eating regularly? Are you getting enough protein, which has not necessarily anything to do with blood pressure, but for the elderly, that's kind of a component they often forget. And by protein, it's not meat, it's plant foods as well. But the hypotension thing, I'm like, don't just think about a pinch of salt, like think about athletic compressions, stockings. Some people have to put a little abdominal binder under their sweaters at wintertime. This is a lot of what we deal with actually for, we have people who are admitted to hospital because their blood pressure is so low and it's not necessarily medication. But Vesanto, I wanted your hot take on that because hypotension. is a tough one. And there are some of my patients, I am like, you need a pinch of salt in your water in the morning with your snack.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, people really vary. Some people pee a lot and the salt will be going right out. There's real differences person to person. So it's really good to learn how to run your machine.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

A lot of people talk about the DASH diet, so I feel remiss if I don't mention that, 'cause that's a really common thing, like, oh, just do the DASH diet, a lot of doctors will recommend. But I mean, the first header on that is like vegetables, fruits, whole grains. Like what you're trying to do is get more of those plant foods. And then again, they talk about low fat reducing things with saturated fat. Well, where is that? That's in mostly animal products. And then the stuff that's processed foods, right? Like the palm oils and then you've got coconut oil. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, there's no doubt about that. Like there's ample literature to support a plant predominant diet for high blood pressure.

Karina Inkster

Yeah. That's a good point. I think we as ethical vegans often forget that there's a large proportion of the population who's in to veganism is entirely health. And I do think ethics and the environment and climate action do eventually show up, especially if they're going to be vegan for the long term. But a lot of people's initial kind of introduction to plant-based eating is from someone like Jade, who's a medical professional, who says, hey, you got to eat more plants. And then they start going down that rabbit hole, right? Literally and figuratively. So I think it's important to remember that there's all sorts of different kind of contexts that bring people to veganism. And one of the main ones is health. Even though, even as a fitness coach, I'm not vegan for health reasons. I think it often gets conflated with health because sure, there's a lot of people who go plant-based for health reasons, but when it comes down to it, I don't think veganism and health should inherently be connected. I mean, I could sit around and eat Twizzlers and Oreos and french fries all day. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with those foods, but if that's all I ate, that would be a problem. So anyway, kind of a tangent, but the health piece does bring a lot of folks to plant-based eating, and I think that's why we have so many questions from people. about things like hypertension and things like saturated fats and omega-3s and all those things. So I think it's important to address those. Okay, so let's veer back to plant agriculture and one more myth that I have for Corey. And I'd like you to explain the myth too for people who are listening and don't know what it is. So someone commented on Reddit, what's the best way to debunk the regenerative grazing myth? So explain what this regenerative grazing concept is and why it's not accurate.

Cory Davis

I'm not necessarily sure myth is the right word here. Regenerative grazing, it's not one thing. And not all the claims regenerative grazing people or proponents make or false. I mean, in some contexts, rotational or adaptive grazing can improve soil health. It can improve ground cover and plant diversity when compared to degraded conventional pasture, right? So... your metric, your frame of reference really matters here, your data. And those benefits, they're real. The problem comes when those improvements are presented as like a whole system ecological solution. So I mentioned rotational grazing. One form of that would be you graze your cattle on this pasture this year, that pasture the next year, it allows time for that pasture to regenerate. regenerative, but a more common practice that we're seeing more and more today is rotational grazing through paddock systems. So this is where, just say you have one acre of pasture, you fence it around the edge and then you fence it into four quadrants, right? This is a regenerative grazing process. practice. And you will have your cattle in one quadrant, and you'll graze it until the grass is grazed to a moderate level. You don't want to overgraze it. Once you're starting to get to that point, you herd your cattle into the next quadrant, right? And let that first quadrant start to regenerate. But the problem there with that is you're fencing everything out. So when you look at soil biodiversity, for example, you might see some benefits, some improvements when compared to your overgrazed or heavily grazed conventional pasture, right? But we're talking in two different worlds. They're talking about improvements in this closed system. So even regenerative grazing systems, they're still livestock systems. They rely on fencing, managed forage, and predator control. They tend to exclude wildlife, large predators, burrowing mammals, native grazers that co-evolved with those ecosystems. And I should say that it's not a malicious intent, right? It's about economics and those species, they're just really difficult to reconcile with commercial cattle production. It's typically not compatible. So, but when most people are talking regenerative grazing, I think that they're thinking about like grass-finished beef. This model, that's not as common as they would like to believe, because regenerative grazing gets thrown around a lot. And that example of the paddock system, the quadrant system, is really, really common. But grass-finished cattle, they grow more slowly, and they take longer to reach their slaughter weight, which means more grass, more time, and more land per unit of beef. When this model scaled, replacing today's beef system with a fully grass-finished production, would require about 30% more cattle and far more grazing land than is available. So land is the limiting factor here. So if we want to debunk that, that's the limiting factor. Livestar already dominate agricultural land use globally. I mean, they... They're on over 40% of all habitable land on planet Earth. Expanding pasture to maintain current beef consumption means keeping more land in livestock systems instead of allowing it to support wildlife, store carbon, or be restored. So the honest conclusion would be that regenerative grazing can improve outcomes within livestock systems, but it doesn't solve the fundamental land use and biodiversity concerns or constraints, I should say, of beef production at the scale that it currently is. I think that's a fair answer.

Karina Inkster

Well, that was an excellent answer. That's the best debunk I've ever heard of regenerative, and I'm using giant air quotes here for people who are listening, regenerative grazing. And actually, that's something I'd never considered before. It's what are we comparing this to? That's one of the most important questions to ask when we're looking at any sort of scientific research. any sort of evidence is, but compared to what? Right? So I think that's a really interesting point that I had not considered before. I just kind of blanket statemented it, if that's even a verb. But it's important to look at context.

Cory Davis

To Vesanto's point, today, about 95% of all the cattle raised in British Columbia are shipped across the Rocky Mountains to Alberta. And most of them go to just three massive feedlots. There's the feedlot alley. It's just right near Lethbridge. You can see the satellite imagery that has like a million cows there at any one time. It's absolutely wild. And a lot of that beef comes from regenerative agricultural systems, like what they would call regenerative. But then, yeah, it's shipped to these feedlots where they almost double their weight. They're fed entirely grains. In Canada, it's mostly barley. In the States, it's a lot of corn, so things that grow well in our different climates and so forth, but also the barley in Canada It's beef, like Canadian beef, the Canadian beef taste, and the corn beef is like the American beef taste. It's their character. It's how they market it.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

These are the mental gymnastics that people will go through to avoid making change, right? And like you see it on a micro and a macro level in every single area of meat eating, like animal eating, because it's just, It's constant, like even as a doctor, really trying to counsel people on the eating part. And so yeah, there's a lot of this myth busting. They're like, but cattle, grass fed, regenerative farms, more beneficial compared to what? Compared to a lentil? No. And it's like, how villainized have legumes become that you would insist on going through all of this It feels like propaganda just to try and get people to continue to eat meat, right? I'm like, for goodness sake, they actually taste good. They're an excellent source of protein and fiber. And people look at me like I have two heads when I'm like, tofu is a wonderful source of protein. You get so much bang for your buck. It can be so flavorful and tasty. And it's just like, but beef though, and they will go back to these things. So Corey, I'm so glad to hear that because I think people need the full truth. Absolutely.

Karina Inkster

Well said. On the note of food myth-busting, Jade, I'm going to throw this at you first and then Vesanto also. How often do you get folks, whether they're patients or in your professional network, saying, oh, but isn't soy bad for us?

Dr. Jade Dittaro

Does that happen a lot? Maybe less now because I think I actually preface it when I'm counseling my patients because I just automatically default have heard it so many times in the past, I'd say six, seven years that I now just default to like, listen, yes, you have a new diagnosis of diabetes. You just had a heart attack. You have a stroke, blah, blah, blah, blah. Plant protein. I'm always like, listen, an excellent source. Soy milk instead of dairy, tofu, edamame, soybeans, tempeh. No, it's not going to cause breast development in men. No, it's not linked with hormonal cancers. It's actually cardioprotective. If you really wanted an estrogen effect, you'd have to drink like 4 liters of soy milk every day for years. It is wonderful. I'm like, and it's fairly cost effective. And it's a really easy way when people are so very fixated on, but how do I get enough protein? And I'm like, but soy milk splashed into all sorts of things, soups and stews and pasta sauce and oatmeal. And I've heard it enough. And I hear it in every single podcast and every single talk and presentation. It's always one of the questions. And I feel like at some point we're going to tip over into, no, I don't know, as long as we have the social media influencers who are really insistent on this whole carnivore nonsense, we're kind of stuck debunking soy. And then I just think, like, what do you think people do in Japan? And they eat a ton of like miso soup and tofu and everything and edamame beans, like, really? They're doing okay from a health perspective if they eat a more traditional diet, so.

Karina Inkster

Such a good point. That was a question from Bosco who was on our Zoom. So it's actually the second part of his question. So we've answered the soy thing. But the first part of his question was, I have IBS and find pea-based protein causes problems. And the follow-up was, you know, I heard soy protein powder is bad, fact or fiction. So we busted that. But Vesanto, maybe you could speak to the IBS and the pea protein?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, it's interesting. It's actually how they're formed. See, I had a couple notes on this and I'm just gonna look them up because that one was really an interesting question. First of all, with IBS, it partly depends on a lot of things. It depends on your gut microbiota. So if you train them a certain way, they will get to know, oh yeah, I can eat this. But if you dump in a whole bunch of whatever bean, you will get gas, discomfort, all kinds of things. And I talked to Will Bulsiewicz one day, and he was at a conference, I think Corey was speaking there too, or I was, something anyway, but he, 'cause I was saying, yeah, just start with half a cup of beans He said start with one bean. Whoops, what? You know, and it was it was more that we adjust gradually and our intestines get used to something. Now how this relates to IBS is that people are gradually going to get their intestines a little bit healthier and it is a gradual process and you know it's good to think about it that way. So that's one thing and the other thing is how the they're made, the pea protein or the soy protein, really affects whether they cause problems or not.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

A big part of my recommendations for IBS is that people ensure that they're going to the bathroom regularly. And so a lot of people will end up eliminating so many foods, right? And they're on a really restricted diet with their IBS or they'll do the low FODMAPs and I'll say, that's not the true way. So a lot of it'll be reintroducing this stuff slowly, right? And will Balswitz is a very great source, but also it'll be the getting your bowels moving, drinking enough water, regular exercise, stress management, because there can be different traits. triggers, right? As a former IBS, survivor, I realized that a huge trigger for me were my evening work shifts. They're wildly stressful. But the reduction in symptoms I had when I went fully plant-based and being vegan was like incredible because I was eating adequate fiber. It changes, right? Your gut microbiome now has this diversified, like, so you kind of, you know, a lot of what Vesanto is talking about is accurate. So I tell the person who's focusing on the protein powders, like, sure, that's all fine and dandy as a bit of a supplement, but ensure you're getting the protein through the actual whole foods and yeah, go low and slow as you introduce them. And like rinse, right? Rinse. Like if you get something, I actually let my chickpeas and beans that are dried soak for almost so long, it's uncomfortable and do lots of rinses because they get a bit of off gassing. Or if you get the canned stuff, you got to rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse before you use them.

Vesanto Melina

Good, good points. Yeah. So it's learning and things like sourdough, things that are fermented really help. Soaking your beans, but you know, and then getting rid of the water. all that kind of thing happens. Yeah.

Karina Inkster

Wow, actionable tips and also myth busting. That's my favorite combo. Love it. Okay, so one more question for Corey. Is livestock necessary for soil health?

Cory Davis

Excellent question. I should note that soil science isn't my specialty, but broadly speaking, the short answer is no. Livestock are not necessary for soil health. But it really depends on, I think, what we mean by soil health and healthy relative to what, again. Ecologically, though, many soils, agriculture labels as poor or marginal is the term, such as you might be able to find in some native grassland, shrublands, or drylands, areas that are currently used for pasture. They're used in the agricultural context. They justify it by saying, well, these are marginal soils, so that's the best use for it to pasture. But these ecosystems, like the grasslands and drylands, they're actually functioning ecosystems that support high levels of biodiversity. So I would call those healthy soils in that context. And these systems, they evolved with native grazers, they evolved with fire and long recovery periods, not with continuous livestock grazing pressures. So in many ecosystems, healthy soils don't need non-native animals added and managed to keep those soil healthy. It needs natural processes left intact.

Karina Inkster

Interesting. So it all comes back to compared to what, what's the context. And I think when people ask this question, and I was asked this at a panel event I was at, at a climate action event where surprisingly few people were vegan, but we'll leave that for a sec. And so people in that context are usually talking about like farming and food production. And it's usually in the context of agriculture, but I've not really thought about the other side of that, which is, Corey, when we did a podcast episode together, you told me this amazing stat that, you know, if everyone were to go plant-based, again, it's not going to happen overnight, obviously, but if, then 75% less land could be used for agriculture and still feed the entire global population. So I haven't really thought about, okay, but what does soil health really mean and what's the context? And maybe it actually means supporting existing biodiversity and not growing a bunch of food that animals are going to eat that people are then going to eat. So that's very interesting.

Cory Davis

That's right.

Vesanto Melina

I found a little note about the what would help the person with the IBS. Oh yeah, perfect. Soy protein isolate in contrast to concentrate, has the FODMAPs stripped away, the kind of carbohydrate compounds that cause the gas problems. So it's soy protein isolate and rice protein isolate, both have that stripped away, and people who have IBS seem to do better with those if they're going to use a protein powder. So it's not the concentrate, it's the isolates.

Karina Inkster

That's a good tip, see again, actionable, helpful.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, it was helpful.

Karina Inkster

That's awesome. Yeah, actually someone else was asking about FODMAP. So Anna, who was in the call, asked both Jade and Vesanto, how would you counsel someone who would like to be fully plant-based, but has a very sensitive gut and can't digest legumes or high FODMAP foods? Are there ways to increase the ability to digest these foods? So we've gone over a couple of those things, like the soaking and the rinsing. But Jade, do you have any more insight on someone who wants to go plant-based but feels like this is the main limiting factor?

Dr. Jade Dittaro

I have heard that so very much, like not just in my individual practice, but on the internet. And I think that's part of why Dr. Will Balsiewicz's book Fiber Fueled is so incredible because I feel like it can help in a lot of detail, but so can his podcast episodes. I often tell people like just find an episode where he's being interviewed where he talks about things like IBS and the low FODMAPS diet. But even the gastroenterologists that I work with who don't have a ton of, they don't talk a ton about nutrition, but even they're like, this is like a two-week reset thing. You're not supposed to be on it forever. So if you end up on it forever, you're going to get nutritionally deficient. And if people can, if they can afford it, even just one time to work with a dietitian, like a proper registered dietitian, not a holistic one, because you need to get a bit of the lay of the land. But it is truly what we emphasize, like that slow reintroduction of things. And Yeah, it can take for some people way longer than they want it to, but you can't live on that limited of a diet forever. It's so restricting. Think about going over to a friend's for dinner, going out for dinner. Your poor gut is like they planted trees for palm oil and they chopped down the whole Sumatran rainforest and all the biodiversity is gone, right? So, and again, the whole thing with like, are your bowels moving regularly? How's your stress reduction? So Vicente, that's my part of my take on it.

Vesanto Melina

It's good. And when I have clients, I start to work with what they already know, and they will know some things, but I've had to work with very restrictive people sometimes, and we figure out something. I had one woman at first after a cancer problem that could only eat four things for a while, and we worked it out, and then gradually more, I usually don't have to see people a lot of times, sometimes only once with the reset, but people can adjust. And even I was teaching at a raw chef school in California and working out diets for people who want to be 100% raw. So that's no beans, you know, none of that group. And we had to work it out with seeds and hemp seeds are particularly high in protein. And we'd just figure out what would work for that person. So it can be done. And then they gradually shift more and more as they get back into healing and health.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

And sorry, one small little snippet to add is that, I've forgotten this is so important, is that a lot of... patients that I work with who have IBS and they're focused on FODMAPs. I ask them about dairy and lactose because a ton of people are lactose intolerant and have no idea. Again, speaking from personal experience, the day I went vegan and then subsequently realized how lactose intolerant I had been my whole life and hindsight's 2020. But it's a huge one. You know, people really have focused a lot on gluten intolerance and I'm like, no, go lactose free first. Like gluten would be weighed down if we're talking about sensitive gut and intolerances. And I find for a lot of people, just making that shift can make a huge difference in the right direction, like eliminating all dairy.

Vesanto Melina

And yet we had it up till 1997 as an essential food group. And we're still subsidizing the dairy industry. About 70% of our subsidies go towards dairy. So that's towards dairy. It's also towards production of veal calves and hamburger meat, because when the cows are 6, they're made into hamburgers. But it's kind of crazy that we're subsidizing this group because it's a bit racist, really, 'cause so many population groups don't use dairy, have never used dairy, like indigenous never did. A lot of Asians never had that in their culture, even though it's been pushed so much. And it's very strange that we still have these farm subsidy programs with so much money going towards dairy, whereas it would be better if it went towards plant foods healthy organic plant.

Karina Inkster

Corey, I'm just curious on that note, how much of your work is related to subsidies and government programming and that kind of thing?

Cory Davis

I will say that Vesanto, I believe, is much more adept at talking about the subsidies and things, for sure.

Karina Inkster

Fair enough. All good.

Cory Davis

I have more of a surficial understanding of that, but Vesanto is truly knowledgeable in that subject.

Vesanto Melina

In the U.S., huge subsidies go towards meat. In Canada, about 70% goes towards, and they're not called subsidies, they actually give the farmers a certain amount, whatever dairy they produce, even if it gets thrown out, they're paid for it. Like it's a crazy system, really.

Cory Davis

And I don't think all the supports are... necessarily captured there. So there's a lot of government programs and things to assist and support local farmers that aren't necessarily captured in that. And there's reporting requirements, which are exempted around water usage and all kinds of things to make things easier for the livestock industry, including cheap water and all kinds of things like that, that you might not see accounted for when we're thinking about subsidies and those kinds of things. So there's lots that goes into it. I sort of understand some at a smaller scale through my work, but don't know much beyond that.

Karina Inkster

That's a good point. Well, Corey, when we chatted on the podcast, I think I'm like 85% sure it was you who recommended George Monbiot's book, Regenesis. I'm pretty sure it was you. So I read that, it was amazing. And I remember a stat from that book that said something along the lines of sheep farmers in the UK would actually be losing out on money. They'd have a negative income if they weren't supported by the government. So it seems like an inherently unsustainable industry, whether it's sheep farming or dairy or meat, that is just bolstered by government funding.

Cory Davis

Yeah, it doesn't fit the capitalist system necessarily because it's not a high performing industry really in that sense. A lot of the ranchers in British Columbia and across Canada, they're straddling the lines of profitability, right? Which is why feedlots make a lot of sense. Like we can dream about this completely grass fed beef and stuff, but in reality it's a small market and that beef is much more expensive, right? And that's how they make ends meet, but really small dips in the price of beef can really create a strong economic impact. And so to buffer those economic impacts for the ranchers, they have to scale up and that takes the form of the feedlot, right? And so you bring it to the feedlot and when you have those high numbers, like we used to have a lot more feedlots in BC, but now there's like a few real massive ones and fewer and fewer sort of local ones because when you scale that out, it helps buffer the price. So if the price dips a little bit, you're a lot more resilient to that price dipping, any little shocks. And so that's why it is the way it is with these massive, massive industrial feedlots. It's really economics in that sense.

Karina Inkster

Interesting, interesting.

Cory Davis

And so when we try and push environmental regulations on like the ranchers and stuff, you know, they put up these big defenses because, hey, they're barely making it by as it is. A lot of them aren't making any money and the money is really in the land that they own, right? And so you get these big defensive mechanisms because, hey, we're talking about their livelihoods and any increase in environmental regulation or accounting of some kind could really impact their bottom line. And they're just trying to survive, you know?

Karina Inkster

That's a great point. We should do a whole podcast episode just on that. That would be amazing. Okay, so we have four more questions. Let's see if we can do them in eight minutes. We'll see what we can do. Okay, so this person was in Zoom, didn't have their name though, but the initials on Zoom were NA, in case they're listening. How should a plant forward athlete balance protein sources to optimize muscle repair after high intensity events like high rocks? Are there specific plant foods or combinations that best support connective tissue recovery? So they're talking about ACL, tendons, and ligaments.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, and this is like the next day or right after. Right after an event, you should be eating 20 to 30 grams of protein right after, apparently. So that's not hard to do. Like if you do some legumes, some quinoa, I use tahini dressings, the seeds in there, it can work really well. Or you could have a tempeh stir fry with vegetables and a grain and get 30 grams of protein. Or you could have a pea protein smoothie with banana and oats, anything like that. And then over the course of a day, you want like three meals like that. So that's how you do it. And it just works really well. And you've got some carbs in there, like it's not just protein.

Karina Inkster

That makes sense. Like it. Yep, very actionable, pretty straightforward. Okay, so a question for Jade from Patricia. She says, I'm a 78-year-old nine-year vegan. How awesome is that, going vegan in your late 60s? Very cool. A recent colonoscopy removed 15 sessile polyps. I was shocked since I think I'm doing everything right with lifestyle. I was told it's genetics and age. Anything you recommend I do?

Dr. Jade Dittaro

Honestly, that's probably the biggest contributor. When I saw that question, I went on a big deep dive because, if you're already doing all of the right things and it's never too late to start and you're getting that adequate amount of fiber that's keeping your gut rolling and eliminated red meat, which is a risk factor. And I'm making an assumption she's not a heavy drinker of alcohol because that's another risk factor. But like if all your risk factors are low, there's not much else you can do, right? Like from my standpoint, I think it's regular surveillance, if you know that you're prone to them and in general, not just with, like this is a good moment of like, there are certain disease states, there are certain medical conditions that you cannot eat your way out of. Like there are just some things that we have genetics, we have predisposing factors and it doesn't matter how wonderful our lifestyle is, we're at risk, we get them. Because I think A lot of people feel a lot of blame and shame when they develop certain diseases. Like it's my fault that I got cancer. It's my fault that I have these pre-cancerous things. If only I ate better or I did this. But like even the most optimal scenario, some people develop these. I think if anything, she should give herself a pat on the back. And I know she's at that age cut off where like they start to say like we don't do surveillance anymore. But when they know somebody is that susceptible to polyps like that and they're in good health as they age, they will keep doing colonoscopies and monitoring.

Karina Inkster

Brilliant. I think you're absolutely right. This is such an important point that there is guilt and shame involved, especially when someone already feels like they're doing all the things. And sometimes there's just nothing we can do. I mean, vegans get cancer. It's yeah, if we eat a whole foods based vegan diet that's well-rounded, et cetera. Of course, it eliminates, or not eliminates, it reduces our risk for a lot of things, but doesn't completely eliminate. So there are still going to be things that show up and genetics are a big factor. Okay, so one last question for Corey, and then we're going to finish off with a protein question that I saved for last, you know, the vegan protein question. Okay, so question for Corey is, are there regions where animal agriculture truly makes sense, or is that mostly a myth?

Cory Davis

That's a really complex and sensitive question. I think the answer is sometimes, maybe less than we're told, but the context really matters. I think some traditional animal systems, I guess, persisted or still persist to the state because they fit a very specific place and culture, not because animal agriculture is necessarily broadly important or needed, right? Historically, I think animals played roles in many food systems, especially where crop production is limited. Think of like the Inuit. Does that make sense? Northern areas with little growing seasons or areas without much arable land. These animal systems in these areas, I mean, they're typically small scale. Another case I often cite is the Marshall Islands in the Pacific Islands, because there's very little arable land there. They're atolls, so they're islands that were built up by volcanoes, and they're little finger islands. You literally put one road from the top to bottom, and if you put houses on either side, every house will be an oceanfront, right? That's how thin the islands are. So Marshallese food systems really were built around the fisheries there, and plant foods with the little amount of land they had. They practiced agroforestry, right, with coconut, giant taro, green leafy vegetables, and so forth. But the coral reefs and those fishery systems were really culturally important and nutritionally important for them. So you couldn't necessarily expand land-based livestock very well there. It doesn't fit ecologically or improve food security there. But traditional practices like fishing, it makes sense for the Marshallese. It's a really important source of protein. I don't necessarily think it's appropriate at the kinds of industrial scales we see today. What matters is whether a food system fits the ecology and long-term health of the place that you're in.

Karina Inkster

Okay, last question from our Zoom event is from Anne. I'm gonna throw it to Vesanto first, and then Jade, jump in. Is there an upper limit of protein supplementation, so like bars and powder, each day that I should watch when I'm having difficulty reaching my daily goal of 100 grams? EG 50-50 split. So Anne is wondering, is there like a max amount of protein that I can get from bars and powder versus presumably whole foods?

Vesanto Melina

Does this person want to eat this huge amount of powders? It sounds like that.

Karina Inkster

Probably not. I would guess not.

Vesanto Melina

Like mostly, you know, the 20, 25 gram kind of, you know, either powder or bars. I don't think it matters which 'cause it's a powder in a bar if it's that, you know, it's really better to go with the Whole Foods because you get all these protective phytochemicals as well that have antioxidants support and immune system support, a lot of protective things in whole foods that you don't get just protein stripped away. Protein got so famous as something that we need, and we do need it. It's great. Our plant protein book got to number one on Amazon, you know. Nice. And it was just, but that's such a draw, but we don't have trouble getting protein. Just going towards the whole foods and making sure you've got, and we get protein from every food group. from the legumes, from the seeds and nuts, especially hemp seeds, from the grains. In fact, about 49% of the world's protein came from grains. Like so many people rely on that for protein. Even the vegetables, like leafy greens, they're about 40% calories from protein. Of course, there's a lot, not many calories. So we get protein from all kinds of places. So don't go to powders in such a high degree.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

I'm very about the practical. I've also worked with a vegan trainer. We talked a lot about not supplementing and a ton of proteins and how that's possible. I also love the Plant-Based Athlete book. And then even I was like, yeah, is there an example on the internet of like 100 grams of protein for somebody who's an athlete and what their diet looks like and Plant-Based News has something. you got to think about it. Like every meal, you add a little bit of stuff. Don't just have plain oatmeal. Like make sure your oatmeal also has, you know, a nut butter mixed in and some hemp hearts and soy milk. And there you go. And then when you have snacks, like instead of a protein shake, why don't you have a little wrap or a half a sandwich with peanut butter and banana on it? Again, put some hemp hearts. Like there's different things. I know that those two sound like very similar foods, but you kind of get my drift, right? Like a little wrap with tofu scramble in it. When you have a salad, don't just have a salad, what can you dump on there? Put a couple different small portion in nuts and seeds, the lentils, the chickpeas, like you just get the cat as long as your gut can handle it. But you know, like honestly, when I am on the go, instead of buying the protein bars, because I'm on a budget right now, because adulting, but I will grab a brick of smoked tofu and I will have that with a piece of fruit and I will be satisfied, you know, my veggies with hummus. Sometimes I'm really grotesque and I'm like dunking my smoked tofu in my hummus and eating it with my veggies. But like, amazing, right? Like, I mean, I'm getting it. I'm getting there. Don't have time for a salad. I'll just shove some plates and spinach in there. Like you do what you got to do, but it doesn't necessarily, eating whole food plant-based doesn't have to be inconvenient. It doesn't have to be elaborate. I know you have to chew 5 billion times when you have fiber dense food, but it can be compact. You can make lentil crackers. You can protein powder if you want to put a little bit in there. It shouldn't be 50% of your protein though. So, but again, I get it. Some people, it's really daunting to go from like 50-50 of like bars and scoops of protein powder with your whole food plant-based proteins to like 100%. So it's just make the changes over time, learn what kind of hacks work for you, but think about how you can add it to each meal and your snacks.

Karina Inkster

Brilliant. I'll use myself as an example. I do eat 100 to 120 grams of protein A day. I think it depends On calories, I eat a lot, probably 2,300 calories. I don't know, I don't track, but when I do, it's well over 2,000. I don't have to think about protein at that point. Now, if I was trying to get 100 grams of protein on 1,800 calories, then yes, I would definitely have to think about more protein dense foods and how that fits in with every meal. So I think there's some context there in like, we don't know this person's calorie goal. Are they in a calorie deficit? Are they not? But either way, I think to Vesanto's point, like one serving of protein powder, it's usually 20 to 25 grams. It's convenient, it's an option, but probably not a great idea to do 50-50. So to Jade's point, whatever whole foods you can stuff into your face is a better option. So I wanna give everyone a quick plug. Corey, do you have anything you would like to plug to our listeners?

Cory Davis

I will second Vesanto's comments about plant-poweredprotein.com. Fantastic resource for everybody and they can find, you know, some of Vesanto's podcasts and my podcasts that we've done on there, the links to it and things like that. Also, Holistic Holiday at Sea, March 1st to March 8th. It's going to be a fantastic vegan cruise with a lot of wonderful presenters. So if there are still tickets available, check it out or check it out for next year even. and see what they're all about.

Karina Inkster

Awesome. Thanks so much, Corey. Vesanto.

Vesanto Melina

My website is called nutrispeak.com. So that's like nutritionspeak.com. If people want to get in touch and do a consultation in BC, they're covered by extended medical and also protein powered website that I mentioned. Another thing, there's a really good article that came out last year, the Eat Lancet 2025 report was so powerful. And it was about health, human health, the environment, the planet health, and even how it would help the poor on our planet, you know, that just are struggling to get enough food in the first place. It was a beautifully done paper. Very, very powerful.

Karina Inkster

Oh, thank you for that, yes. Maybe we can link to it in our show notes. I will include that, I'll make a note. Love it. Thanks, Vesanto. Jade, what do you got for us?

Dr. Jade Dittaro

If you would like to see a slightly unhinged mixed bag of sharing of random recipes and animal and environmental related things, Dr. Jade DeTaro, I'm on Instagram and Facebook, but I'm also happy to connect with people who are looking for more resources. Like this is the thing is I've gone on my own journey as a physician who didn't learn much about any of this in my standard medical training. So I have resources up the wazoo for people. I also am affiliated with and strongly recommend different lifestyle clinics. So Aroga Lifestyle Medicine is the one that I've practiced with. I'm just on a little hiatus, but they're available in BC via telemedicine as well as Ontario and hopefully expanding. And then a plug for Lifestyle Rx that I'm not affiliated with, but are wonderful. And again, telemedicine. group-based programs predominantly for people with chronic diseases. And again, like when it's covered under MSP, take advantage if you don't have to pay the extra money. But those specialized resources are there.

Karina Inkster

Thank you. Well, Corey, Vesanto, and Jade, thank you so much for reconvening for more amazing questions from our audience. I so appreciate it. Thank you for being here.

Dr. Jade Dittaro

Thank you. Good.

Cory Davis

Thank you so much for having us.

Karina Inkster

Vesanto, Jade, and Corey, thank you so much for gathering together again for an incredible BS-busting conversation. Access our show notes at nobullshitvegan.com slash 216 to connect with all three guests and to access the study we mentioned in our discussion. And don't forget to cast your vote for this podcast at VegNews.com for their 2026 Veggie Awards. Thank you so much, and thanks for tuning in. Thanks for listening to the No Bullshit Vegan podcast at nobullshitvegan.com.