The Plant-Based Secrets to Staying Strong as You Age

Kathleen Gage

I am super, super, super excited today. I got to tell you, my guests just keep getting better and better and better. And today my guest is Vesanto Molina. And Vesanto is actually the author of a new book coming out called Plant Powered Seniors. I love, love, love the title because I actually went vegan when I plant-based actually initially when I was 64 and that was eight years ago. And I couldn't find stuff for people my age. I was finding a lot for perimenopause, menopause, but nothing post menopause, nothing for older women. And I'm like, okay, there's got to be something out there. And lo and behold, it only took me 8 years of doing this thing to finally get the book that I am just absorbing and enjoying. And let me put this up here, Plant Powered Seniors. Vesanto, it is so great to have you on the show. And what I'd like to start with is give a bit of your backstory, your origin story, of when you went plant-based, do you identify as a vegan, and why? You're listening to the Plant-Based Eating for Health podcast show. I'm your host, Kathleen Gage. We're here to plant seeds on compassion to animals, your health, and the environment, and topics related to business that align with all three of those areas. Enjoy the show.

Vesanto Melina

Okay, my background, my dad actually worked with Best and Banting that got the Nobel Prize for insulin. And he worked with cancer research and diabetes research. So he was doing all that kind of stuff. And my mother worked at the Child Study Center, worked with children and liked helping kids prepare food and liked healthy food and fitness. Now our concepts of healthy were really different. So I had a really good start about health and fitness in my life. And then, but we were eating meat, fish, chicken, that was all part of it. And then when I was teaching university, started about actually 63 years ago. So I was in my 20 practically, just a bit over 20. And then I went to India for four years when I was in my 30s. And I wanted a real change from all the academic stuff, like the other side of life. And India was a very good place to learn how to be vegetarian because the Eastern religions all consider that, you know, we go through these lives, various lives, including you might be an animal one life. And, you know, that's a foundation of a lot of Eastern religions, very different from Western religions that are, you get one life and that's it. So anyway, I thought, who knows? And I became vegetarian at that point. So that was in the late 70s, early 80s. And we had Francis Moore Lepe writing Diet for a Small Planet. And these kind of concepts we considered food combining important for a while, eat only beans and grains at the same meal. So I've been through a long evolution of dietary change And then, and I came back from India and started teaching at university for the public and also doing workshops for dietitians who really didn't think much of vegetarian. It was kind of a hippie thing where it wasn't considered a health objective. But our first book was written in 1993. And it was just seemed to be the right thing at the right time. I did that with Brenda Davis. And we've been co-authors for now 33 years and we're still friends. And we've just had a wonderful time. So now we've got 15 books in 10 languages with over a million copies in English. And so it's really been a privilege to be part of this. And I get to travel the world because I speak and spoken in at least 10 countries. and all over North America, and you get to see what wonderful people are out there. You know, if you just look at the news, it's not so inspiring, but if you travel and visit all these plant-based people that are really trying to make a difference and do it in a positive way, and they're making a difference in their own health, they're making, we're discovering now a big difference in environmental issues when you choose lower on the food chain. And they're making a difference, of course, for animals that go through such tragedies in their life.

Kathleen Gage

They do. And I love in your book, in the beginning, you start with this is it's not just about what we eat for us. It's about the environment and the animals. And I actually work with Cheryl Moss, who is the founder of Better Life for Animals. And her whole mission is raising awareness around what animals go through, who end up in sanctuaries. And that, It's not just the peaceful little home that they happen to end up in. They have a rough life. So I'm so glad that that's a part of your mission too. Now, I'm curious with the first book that you and Brenda Davis did, didn't it just recently hit a million copies or something?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, it's over a million. Well, our books, I guess, together are well over a million.

Kathleen Gage

That's amazing.

Vesanto Melina

Our first book was Becoming Vegetarian. And it was actually not worded as a vegan book. We didn't even know the word vegan in 1993. But we had a chapter called Without Dairy. And it didn't say dairy was bad. It just said that if you don't eat dairy, then here's how you can get the nutrients. the dairy farmers saw that and they wrote a 45 page booklet against our book and gave it out to everybody who'd take it for free.

Kathleen Gage

As I recall, it was because of what they did. They were trying to stop you and their backlash was you became a best-selling author. I love it. I love it.

Vesanto Melina

Our book was well written and theirs wasn't very.

Kathleen Gage

Now, is it still called Becoming Vegetarian or is it called Becoming Vegan?

Vesanto Melina

Becoming vegetarian, cooking vegetarian, and in different countries too, because their books are in a lot of languages. And then we've realized more recently, this is a big change that's happened for me, I was thinking vegan was the way to go health-wise. And now what I'm thinking is well-planned vegan. is what's turning up to be best in the scientific studies?

Kathleen Gage

Okay.

Vesanto Melina

So there, a couple foods that people might really enjoy, like soda pop and potato chips. I don't do either of those. Yeah, no, but when people and now people can go vegan and eat really quite a lot of junk.

Kathleen Gage

And they can. They can get the ultra processed vegan foods and they can think in their mind that they're doing something healthy. And I definitely want to dig into that. I want to take a step back, though, on the difference between vegetarian and vegan, because when I first became plant-based in 2018, I had no clue what the difference between vegetarian and vegan was. So can you share with the listeners and the viewers what that means?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, well, so by the way, we're quite a lot using the word plant-based now.

Kathleen Gage

Right. And you're using plant-powered?

Vesanto Melina

Inclusiveness. Yeah, and plant-powered, of course, because power. Yeah. So vegetarian meant that you don't eat animal flesh. So there you avoid, the thinking of the actual slaughter of whether it's fish or chicken or pigs were what really hit for me and calves. I had lived on a cattle ranch for a while, not that I owned, but I was just renting. So I saw what happened with the cows in the winter. tough and I've seen you know chicken farms I've been to chicken slaughterhouses you know that kind of thing and that was really strong for me but I didn't realize how it tied in for example that the chickens for making eggs are often fed all the ground up little boy chicks because that's just something that, they don't know what to do with all the boys. They can't make them into egg layers. And so anyway, they're just put into these grinding machines and just have terrible fates. So, and the calves that are produced, like veal calves that are kept in these little tiny units, but the mothers become hamburgers after about 6 years. The dairy cows or the cows that are producing these calves, if they're not producing milk, they're no use anymore. So they can't live out to their usual 18 or 20 years. They're ended at six years and they're put into hamburger meat. And so I just realized that the whole thing is quite a tragedy for the animal reasons, but it turns out it's also a tragedy for health reasons because, for example, beef is a probable carcinogen. Probable carcinogen, that's World Health Organization, American Institute of Cancer Research. There's strong data on that. And cheese is about, say, cheddar, parmesan, 75% of the calories are from fat. So we think of some of these as protein foods. And people think, oh, I got to get my protein, but they're actually fat foods A lot. And the saturated fat, the types of fat. So I just started to realize that it was better to avoid the whole animal product industry for health reasons. And it turns out that from work in Oxford, Joseph Poor, that the differences in CO2 emissions, water use, land use, land pollution, water pollution, they're all hugely different between beef, say, and tofu. Like 30 times as much CO2 emissions from beef as from tofu. And they even count that for, say, dairy cow beef. It's not quite as high, but it's very high. And things like cheese have huge amounts of water use. I guess they got to keep those cows clean and somehow they end up using way more water than other foods. It's amazing. So we're just starting to see these pictures. And usually the media doesn't twig into the fact that foods are so important. They talk about transportation differences, but not foods. So anyway, I'm just starting to realize, hey, it really does make a difference. And people are starting to care about that.

Kathleen Gage

And hopefully through shows like this, people will become more aware because I think with the media, oftentimes they're funded by the very industries that are really the bad guys, if you will. I mean, the animal agriculture, the dairy industry, and they get their funding through them. So they're not going to speak poorly of them. And it's really time for people to just stand up and say, no, enough is enough. Look what we're doing to our planet. Look what we're doing to the animals. And Most of all are health. not most of all. I think they're all equally important because, every time that I go to the grocery store, I get a wake up call. I get a reality check of how unhealthy people are. One of the things you mentioned in your book is the whole idea of movement is important and exercise is important. And I know that's really important to you. And Most people are so sedentary and they don't realize that excess weight they're carrying, it's not just about what it does physically in the mirror. It's what it's doing internally. Talk to us, if you will, about the obesity epidemic, that when somebody has obesity, that what it's really doing to their body and their spirit, if you will.

Vesanto Melina

Okay, yeah, that is just a tragedy. And we find that in, say the US, more than two out of three people have either obesity or overweight. And a lot of times that's fat around the middle, around the organs. And it seems to have a very detrimental effect health-wise to have that fat there. And we think of things like type 2 diabetes being related to carbohydrates because you get high blood sugar. But it turns out that fat is actually a problem for the function of insulin. So fat blocks the insulin receptors. It has an impact in that area. we end up with high blood sugar. The cells aren't taking up the calories in the same way. But fat has a huge impact. So obesity is linked with so many different chronic conditions. It's linked with pre-diabetes, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes. cardiovascular disease, dementia, and Alzheimer's. So many different conditions. Hypertension, I don't know if I said that one. Anyway, it's just really, really important to keep your weight and not have all this fat sitting around causing problems.

Kathleen Gage

How did we get here? How did we get to the mess we're in? Because, it's like we can paint a pretty picture and say, oh, well, it's not that bad. It is bad. It is bad when, what, how, what percentage of the population lives with being overweight or obesity? It's pretty high.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, it's more than two, two thirds have one or other of those. Now, when we get older, It turns out that when we're 65 or more, that, let's see, 95% of seniors have one or more health conditions. And I think it's just under 70% have two or more. And those conditions can be affected by diet, by getting your weight to the right place, doing some exercise. Exercise keeps your body moving, keeps your blood churning around and carrying bad things away and bringing the oxygen and so on. And so that just makes a huge difference, whether it's to dementia or to heart disease, to have that exercise happening, have your weight at the right level. One of my neighbors just yesterday, we were going down the stairs And she said, I admire you so much. And I said, what? And she said, because I had just gone out to the gym when I passed her before I was going out and she's got quite a problem with her, belly fat and that kind of thing. And she said, I'm just too tired to go to the gym. And I realized that When I go to the gym, which I do five fitness classes a week and two yoga classes, and usually when I get there, the first minute or two, I'm going, oh boy, this feels different from just sitting at the computer, you know, or, you know, sitting whatever else I do, eat dinner, watch TV, that kind of thing. But you feel and then you get into it and it actually starts feeling good. I get my stance a bit taller. I'm holding my head straight. And I love fitness classes that are for seniors. They're really helpful. They plan them so well. So for some people like me, that's great. You're using weights, you're using stretch cords, you're doing things with other people, the instructors know how to keep you interested and involved in breathing and they help balance which is really important for me. But some people don't like going to fitness classes and that's... okay too. You can just like make sure you play with your grandchildren. My husband is liking going cycling with our seven-year-old grandson and they're having a great time going along different places and you know he's so excited to be doing that and or they both are actually and also you could just do gardening or you know help kids with their soccer field, with their soccer exercise. Just do all kinds of different things that you enjoy, but are physical.

Kathleen Gage

And it's interesting with what you said about your husband bicycling with your grandson is there's memories we leave for our families and our friends. And with many people, they're leaving the memory of they were always too tired, I don't have the energy, not now, I worked really hard today. And then there are the other people who are leaving the memories of going on bicycle rides and being able to carry their own bags at the grocery store and things of that nature. Because It really is, it goes deeper than just, that we're eating a plant-based diet or we're vegan. It really goes into quality of life. One thing I heard on another podcast you were on is you were taking a self-defense class and you mentioned

Vesanto Melina

something.

Kathleen Gage

Yeah, When something you said that really struck me and you said I didn't even think about this until the instructor said something. But when you walk into a situation, whether it's a park, you're hiking, you're at the grocery store, you're in the parking lot, the way you carry yourself determines if you're setting yourself up to be a victim or be the victor. So talk to us about your self-defense class and why that would be something worth people pursuing.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, that was fun. I actually did a self-defense course decades ago that was just half a day, a few hours, and my daughter did it before she went to India, went traveling around the world. So that was a little short one. Well, the one I just took earlier this year was 12 sessions and it was led by somebody who really had a passion for this and it was all a women's self-defense and she worked in shopping malls and at City Hall. And even at City Hall, they had people, they had to get out once in a while. I bet they did, yes. Yeah, she'd been attacked and did all kinds of things, you know. Like one really interesting one, I remember, just visual. She came into the class and it turned out she actually had something like seven or nine knives on her, but you couldn't see any of them. And she said, well, in this part, particular part of town, everybody has a knife, just about wasn't true. But like, it was just good to know that kind of stuff. We're not going to run into that. But it really helps to know both what to do in certain situations, you know, how to get yourself out of it or not have it start in the first place, or what your strengths are. So I found out one of my strengths was I have a very good yell. I could yell as good as the teacher. Like I could really make a big racket. So that isn't something that I have to do. in typical situations, but it gives me comfort to know, comfort to know what your skills are. The teacher, the people in the class were mostly around 30 and I'm 84. So we had quite a... The teacher wouldn't let me get thrown on the floor. People were able to do that. Some of the people, you know, how you can grab somebody's arm and just flip them on the floor. I could do the flipping, but I wasn't allowed to be flipped. Well, I'm going to encourage.

Kathleen Gage

People, if you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple, I encourage you to go to the YouTube channel and take a look at you because it's like 84 years old. You're taking five fitness classes a week. You're writing best-selling books. You're just out there rocking it. And you called Brenda the vegan rock star. I would say you're definitely a vegan rock star. It's amazing. But I'm kind of curious, what was your motivation for writing the book Plant Powered Seniors? And got the book right here. I encourage people to go to Amazon. You can pre-order it right now. And when does it actually get published?

Vesanto Melina

It's just getting to bookstores now, but we love people to pre-order it. helps people know that it's happening.

Kathleen Gage

Absolutely.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. So we all, and I know I have this very much, have a passion for helping people. Like I actually would like to get to be 118.

Kathleen Gage

I heard you mentioned that. How did you come up with 118?

Vesanto Melina

Well, I just made it up and I talked to my sister who's a stunt woman in Paris and she thought she could get to 105. She's younger than me. We were just figuring out where we'd get to. But I realized that what helps people go more plant-based is seeing some good examples around. that you, so that was one thing. And just to try it out now. I don't have that much reason I got to do all that kind of stuff, but it will be fun. I know I'll be healthy for quite a long time, I expect. But the thing that is a kind of a passion for me is helping other people do that too. And it really inspires me when I find people, in different states. I have clients all over North America. And my website's nutrispeak.com, by the way, like nutrition speak.com.

Kathleen Gage

So Nutria speak.

Vesanto Melina

Just Nutria, NUTRI.

Kathleen Gage

NUTRI.

Vesanto Melina

And so I have clients that really want to be healthy and they're doing their best, but they're just not quite sure what the science updates are about omega-3s, how much vitamin D should I take, am I getting enough protein, that kind of stuff. And I do nutritional analyses. And it really inspires me that people are doing so well. So I have some people come and or well, it's online a lot of times and I can say you are doing brilliantly already. You figured out a lot of really good things. Now it would help if you just did this tweak and that tweak and do these things a little bit more that you're doing or not do that one quite as much, that kind of thing. But it's wonderful for people to find that. then I also find people, like one client I had that had diabetes, or she had pre-diabetes, and a year later she said, I have to do another session with you. I'm done with diabetes. It just got completely turned around. Well, I found that quite a bit. Or another one who was She has a husband with dementia, pretty upsetting. And he's always doing like moving things around the house and wandering off in the middle of the night. He's not in a facility yet and she doesn't think he's quite ready for that. But Anyway, so she was kind of depressed and had lost a lot of weight. She was skin and bones, tall, thin. And I told her, okay, here's a recipe that I know someone with cancer has been using to help regain some lost weight. A simple recipe, two ingredients. And After 5 days, she said, hey, it's working. she was way underweight. It was really inspiring for her to find, hey, I can do this and it tastes good. I love it.

Kathleen Gage

What was the recipe?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, it's chocolate pudding and it's very simple. So you can either heat just one of those like 85% dark chocolate, they're vegan bars. You get them at Walmart very cheaply or whatever store for sometimes a little bit more. And so you melt that and you can either do that in a double boiler or the microwave. add a package of soft tofu, so it's 100 gram chocolate bar, and mix it up with a blender, immersion blender. Now, Some people like to add peanut butter to that too. So it's three ingredients or have it with some, there's some very good pea based protein yogurts. So they're vegan yogurts. Silk has a good one. And so that's four ingredients, but it's still something that people are just loving and it helps. So one person I know is having that like once or twice a day because of oral cancer and it was hard to eat a lot of things. And that one really worked. So we figured out, to figure out things that actually work for the person's lifestyle and they like, and it's not too hard to make. That's one of the things in our book that has really been interesting because I like things very quick. I'm kind of a Johnny Cash person. I like short words, do it quick, get it out, you can go to the gym then. And Brenda Davis likes things very gourmet and elegant. And so in our books, we've been able to combine those two extremes of things. And we help each other. So in our recipes, which we have, our books are mainly nutrition, but they also have recipes. So the recipes can have add-ons and tweaks. So if you want to really impress your family or your neighbors or something, you can make it very elegant. Or if you're more on my wavelength, you can just get it all done.

Kathleen Gage

I'm on your wavelength. Get her done. Get to the gym.

Vesanto Melina

Exactly. Or go and have some fun some other way. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

And I would imagine that some of those recipes would be great for people who are with a partner or a spouse who is not plant-based and they've been resistant. And some of the recipes could actually bring them over to our side.

Vesanto Melina

That's right. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

You know, that's a challenge a lot of people live with.

Vesanto Melina

They sure do. And I know my husband didn't like tofu at all.

Kathleen Gage

Right.

Vesanto Melina

And, you know, of course, there was a lot of bad press put out by the dairy industry and was it Weston Price, different people, you know, that was based on two guys who ate ridiculous amounts of soy ended up with problems. But anyway, tofu and soy end up being a really, really valuable food in terms of protein, nutrition, environmental impact, just all kinds of things. but he didn't like it. And then I found different ways of preparing it that would really be appealing. And that's what it is I find for people. And I don't often approach people and tell them about animal issues when they're not in that wavelength because it just makes them feel bad. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

And that's the nice thing is that we have three different camps, if you will, that we can present information from depending on where somebody's coming from, because I work quite a bit within the animal sanctuary space. I have a show that I produce for a client and we're working on a book for her, a number of different things. And I'm shocked. I'm literally shocked when we have somebody who wants to be on the show. And we say, are you vegan? Because that is a criteria that Cheryl will not cross that line. She's very much vegan. She believes that if you're going to save animals, you ought not eat them too. And I have been surprised at how many people are involved in sanctuary work that are not vegan. And it's like, okay, I have to not pass judgment. It's not my place. Although I'm very good at passing judgment, but I work on that. That's one of my shortcomings. It's like, oh, please God, take that away from me. It's like, but yeah, so it's like we can talk about, depending on where somebody's coming from, nutrition, we can talk about health and disease and how to minimize and prevent it. We can talk about the animals. We can talk about the environment wherever we can meet them where they're at. And speaking of health and nutrition, What are some of the greatest challenges for people 65 plus? And I'd love to talk about women post-menopause because I noticed that for me, I started lifting weights when I was in my 30s. So we're going back 40 years. And back in my 30s, I mean, I could build muscle with no problem. I could lean out. I was down to 15% body fat, which probably wasn't the best body fat. I mean, I was pretty low. And that's not the case. today. And I've noticed there are changes in my body that I thought I could avoid that, but it's part of maturing and growing older. But some of the things that are common for post menopause, what does a plant-based lifestyle and plant-powered eating do to minimize that and to actually improve, like the belly fat, for example, and the crepe skin and all that kind of stuff?

Vesanto Melina

So one doctor I had when I went through menopause myself, which was actually I went through quite effortlessly because I was eating more plant-based, but...

Kathleen Gage

Well, aren't you special?

Vesanto Melina

Because I didn't. I did.

Kathleen Gage

Good for you.

Vesanto Melina

But she told me every woman, you know, this isn't 100%, but gains 10 pounds in menopause. at that time or through that period. And so if you're not going to do that, you've got to really watch it because you're taking estrogen out of the whole system or cutting it way, way back, you just, your body functions differently. So you start putting fat down and you put fat around your visceral organs. So that was something. And I actually did. I did gain that weight. I actually went to True North in California and lost it. My friend, good friend Michael Clapper was there who just wrote Moving Medicine Forward.

Kathleen Gage

Yes, I have to get that book. I was just talking to a couple from Sedona, Arizona, Bev and Don, and they were talking about that book. Yeah.

Vesanto Melina

It's good. And you can have him on sometime too. Anyway, he was working there and I thought, boy, if Michael Clapper's there, that's going to be a good place. So I went down and it was about fasting. And I found that very interesting. And it was actually quite a good way. I knew two people there, one from Finland and one from the Midwest who actually moved to California and volunteers there now. But they had both lost 90 pounds. And it was interesting because they were, True North was reasonable cost. They do very good research and NIH supported research sometimes. And they can really help people lose weight when it's just practically so hard to do. So I went down to just to see how it worked. And I found that, very interesting place. And they have no added salt, no added sugar and low oil, just sort of natural, the carbs and fat that's in plant foods. Very good. Chef Ramsay's Bravo, creating good food for people. So anyway, That was just an interesting thing about menopause and the changes we go through and then later also about how to get rid of really serious overweight. Now, what we find for seniors generally is that it really helps to go more plant-based for weight management because plant foods, well, they have a lot of fiber in them. Fiber's only in plant foods. And so That means things get carried through your gastrointestinal tract quite well. Some gets carried out. There's food has bulk in it. So you can end up eating quite a lot. You feel like you really got a good lunch, your plate's full and without adding so many calories. And things like cheese and meat and so on, they're very compact in terms of the caloric density. And so it really helps to go more plant-based for that reason.

Kathleen Gage

So I want to switch gears here a little bit on your process for writing the book because I'm an author myself and I'm always interested in authors who are so successful like yourself and Brenda Davis. What was your whole process for deciding that the three of you would write this book together? And what is your promotion strategy around it? How are you going to get the book in people's hands in addition to being on shows like this?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, well, let's see in terms of us, Brenda and I wanted to do this. And So we were interested, and I do these things. This is an interesting idea in case people want to increase their, community, vegan community around them. But I have these things called Snack Lux every month or so. And I live in a co-housing community. We have a big dining room. I can have 48 people over. So I have like a speaker, it's free, and I ask people to bring a vegan snack. And so anyway, they come and it's kind of fun. It's, people often have restaurant get togethers, but then you're stuck between two people. But in this kind of thing, there's a talk and then people can wander around a bit and have snacks and even find somebody to date. And, it's just a fun kind of thing. And so anyway, I knew Sharlin, who was a doctor from the university. And she, we just made that connection. And so we invited her to join us. And that was, just very, very helpful. And her interest is even broader. You might want to have her on sometime, but. Absolutely.

Kathleen Gage

I think she's going to be scheduled for the show for sure.

Vesanto Melina

So, she's interested in the broader picture of, you know, how our government could be helping us eat healthier. So my interests have been around the fact that we subsidize meat. in the US, about 70% of the subsidy dollars. In Canada, it's subsidies for dairy, about 70%, huge amounts. So we're paying for these dairy cows and meat that are probable carcinogens. Like we're subsidizing that. That's crazy, you know. Anyway, So I've been interested in that and I've also been interested in the, school policies. New York, they've got on Fridays and Mondays, I think they serve 8,000 meals a day to kids. And on Fridays, And now on Mondays, those are vegan meals and the kids aren't throwing them in the garbage like they like them. They got good stuff. So anyway, I've been interested in all this. I kind of went off track there a bit. But anyway, so we've just been expanding our range of understanding how we can create shifts. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

So what's the process for writing like when you have, because I've done some co-authored books and it's always interesting to see people's writing styles. How did you work in harmony with one another? Did you write something and then they would review it or did you each agree on a section that you would work on? What was your process there?

Vesanto Melina

That's what, so we typically divide, tell what chapters we want. You know, we want a chapter that's an introduction. production, we want something about chronic disease and then we ended up with 15 of the major chronic diseases that are responsible for the problems with seniors. and all that can be improved by a well-planned vegan diet. We've got also a big chapter on all the nutrients. You know, what's the story about vitamin D? What about omega-3 fatty acids? And what about social issues? What about what do you put in your cupboard? How do you change your eating style and then recipes? So anyway, we had like a dozen or nine or something chapters. And we divided up, okay, I'll do the first draft of this one. You'll do the first draft of this one. And then we pass them to each other and rip them to shreds. And it's friendly. That's what friends are for. Yeah, exactly. And then we end up with very good writing. Brenda will end up with longer words. I'll end up with shorter words. I'll say, hey, that's too complicated, that sentence. She'll go, oh, we need to put in the word resilience. Why does that even mean, So anyway, it's quite fun to do this. And I looked at the words in our book.

Kathleen Gage

I love the book. I have to tell you that I am doing a program right now by Hal Elrod called Miracle Morning. And then I'm doing the final phase of what's called 75 Hard. It's a year long program. And part of the whole process is you read a book. And so I read my morning book that they gave me. And then I, in addition, I have been reading out a yearbook and I love it. It's very easy to understand. You start with Maria's story of how, you know, she was very unhealthy. And by going plant based throughout the book, you share stories about her. But no, I love what's in here. And I encourage people to actually go over to your favorite bookstore, whether it's a local independent bookstore or Amazon, order your book of Plant Powered Seniors. I guarantee you'll be happy you did. And one, I love how thick it is. I mean, that's one thing. I'm an obsessive writer. It's like if a little is good, a lot is great. So this is a lot of great information. So I have a couple of questions. Okay, want to stick with the book first before I ask my next question about nutrition. What is your strategy for getting this book in people's hands? What are some secrets you can share with other plant-based authors that will help them to get their book in somebody's hands? Because this is a community where we're so giving to each other. It's like, let's help each other out. So what can you share?

Vesanto Melina

Okay. I do these snack locks for one thing. That's it. It's a good thing to do. Like even if you're just inviting people over to your living room, but invite instead of you having to be the host, invite everybody, bring stuff. Like I'm not even that good at doing demos while I talk, you know? Right. I'll probably drop it, right? And so anyway, it's good to have it more communal like that. I also went through my address book and found what people would be interested in. Like a lot of dietitian groups, I'm A registered dietitian, just different. And I ended up with 600 emails that I could just send, hey, this is a good book, that I thought people, and I got lots of people saying, hey, I already pre-ordered it, it's coming back. We also have a very good Smith promotional company, which I hadn't had before. And they are extremely helpful in lining things up. And so we wrote little what are they like little promo pieces that they could send out so they know what kind of thing we could talk about?

Kathleen Gage

Right.

Vesanto Melina

So I'm doing these things every about. every two or three days.

Kathleen Gage

Okay. And I will tell you, your PR company is very good. They're very good. Because I deal with a lot of different PR companies and some, you know, you think, okay, you just read a book and now you're an expert. These people are very organized. They communicate well. They kept you in the loop. And so kudos to them. You picked a good one.

Vesanto Melina

They are good. Yeah. And Brenda's taking the summer off. She's at her summer cottage with grandkids and kayaking and canoeing. And I said, and so Charlene and I, Dr. Charlene Black, co-author, we're managing just interviews and things like that. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

Excellent. Excellent. How many interviews do you think you'll be doing for this particular book?

Vesanto Melina

Oh, 70.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, And I used to do a program called the 100 Club, and I would teach my clients how to get on 100 podcast shows if they were promoting a book. It's like, you get on 100 shows in a six-month period, you will be a bestseller. If you're a great interviewer like you or interviewee, I should say. I want to go back to nutrition and a couple of questions I have on some supplements. One is, creatine. Now, I know that creatine, oftentimes people think the only way they can get it is through meat and through animal-based products. Our body does produce it, but what can you tell me about the need to take creatine or not take it?

Vesanto Melina

Well, it does seem to be helpful. Like one of the things I'm finding is that People want to gain muscle or at least keep the muscle they've got when they get older. And so some of the ways to do that are to include, make sure you've got enough protein, enough iron. By the way, I want to say with iron, so we talked about processed foods not being that helpful, ultra processed, but there are some good processed foods. And I was impressed at the Beyond Burger. how much iron it's got. It's got 6.5 milligrams of iron. And we need like 8 or.

Kathleen Gage

I was going to say, give me a point of reference because I don't even know how much we need. So, okay.

Vesanto Melina

Most of your iron recommendation. And I've had clients just who are low in hemoglobin. Most of us are on the low end for ferritin, which is okay. But if you're way too low, again, just that iron intake can help. So we want, you know, for muscle, we want protein, iron, that kind of thing. Just a second, got off track for our.

Kathleen Gage

We're talking about creatine.

Vesanto Melina

Oh yeah, creatine. So some of the things that can really help you gain muscle are not only to have the protein, but also creatine seems to help. And there have been some good studies. So I'm just taking a little bit, like a little tiny spoonful in the morning, like in my blueberry kale smoothie or just a spoonful of it. And, you know, It is shown. Now, you can't just take protein, protein powders, creatine. You've got to do the exercise. So the muscles respond to get the room. Yeah, weights.

Kathleen Gage

Exactly. What about you've got branched chain amino acids and you've got essential amino acids. And I read somewhere that branched chain don't really do that much for vegans, but essential amino acids do.

Vesanto Melina

It's actually lysine is an amino acid that is predominant in muscle and it's in things like beans. So we're telling people somehow have legumes three times a day and they'll go, yeah, give me a break. I'm not going to have baked beans for breakfast, lunch, and supper. But how it works out is that legumes can include, say, some soy milk on your cereal. So soy milk for that reason, or their milks with pea protein, fortified milks we want. Or you can have peanut butter on your toast. That's been a favorite in our house. My husband has liked a lot. Just quick. Peanut butter. Okay, done. Whole grain toast, peanut butter. And then have maybe tofu at one meal and beans, peas or lentils at another meal. Quick ways to cook them. And one of the things Sharlin brought into our mix is that batch cooking is really helpful. to make a great big pile of it, a lentil soup or something like that, minestrone, put it in containers. So one of the things that helps people is to get the right kind of containers, like those glass ones put in the freezer. So, you can have 10 servings of your favorite, whatever it is, put it in the freezer and then just pull it out. So that's one of the easy things for seniors.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, Yeah, I currently am doing a minimum of 10 grams of creatine a day because I lift weights and I tend to, I've been getting back into, I stopped for a while, you know, went through the death of my parents and just did a bunch of not healthy things for myself. and back into really being very conscious of my health. And so I tend to lift pretty heavy for especially a woman my age. And I find the creatine helps. But what about essential amino acids compared to the birth change?

Vesanto Melina

We actually do get, that was one of the myths and misconceptions from Francis Moore Lepe was that we have to get beans and grains at the same meal to get all the Essene. because legumes are short in one and grains are short in the other. So it was like you got to have them both there. And in the 70s, I guess we were trying to figure out, okay, how can we do that at the same every meal? complicated, slide rules and all that stuff. And it turns out that your body can keep the amino acids from different foods over the course of a day. So instead of that, and this is actually on my website, there's a food guide. Remember the nutrispeak.com?

Kathleen Gage

We'll put that in the show notes. We'll make sure people know where to find that.

Vesanto Melina

That just shows what you still want instead is a balance of foods. And you don't have to do the exact thing every single day, but your body can keep the amino acids. So it does include legumes, which are real superstars. And one of the recipes I love is a marinated little tofu cubes. So you can have.

Kathleen Gage

You mentioned that in your other, the other show I listened to you on and I was like, I marinate mine in amino acids in the liquid aminos by Bragg's. And I'll put a little bit on that and then I put it in the air fryer and 10, 12 minutes, I'm good to go. I have some in the refrigerator right now that I'm going to have for my lunch. And but you had a recipe I'm going, oh my gosh, But I was walking when I was listening. So tell me the recipe. I got to write it.

Vesanto Melina

Well, it's in there in that book, but it's tofu. I forget what it's called exactly in that book, but it is marinated tofu. Oh, there's two marinades in there. But this one is so quick. I've got it in my fridge. But I love the taste of ginger and I like garlic, which of course is a healthy thing to have. Both of those are very healthy. And a little bit of rice vinegar. Now you could use a different vinegar. And the option is to put toasted sesame oil too. It brings a lovely flavor and aroma just a bit. So you've got either Braggs what you use, or tamari, the Japanese, or soy sauce, one of those, plus rice vinegar, plus ginger. And I actually like chopping up fresh ginger, but there's.

Kathleen Gage

I was going to say, is it fresh vinegar or ginger or is it the powder?

Vesanto Melina

I use fresh. It's not powder, but they have little jars of it now already cut up. And when I was at True North, I learned from Ramsey's Bravo to use chopped up garlic.

Kathleen Gage

Nice.

Vesanto Melina

So you can get a big jar of that and you just put a little scoop in. So anyway, that's just sitting in my fridge absolutely all the time. And I can pull it out, put it in the air fryer. I do 11 minutes and.

Kathleen Gage

But if people don't?

Vesanto Melina

Have an air fryer, they can put it in the oven or they can put it in a pan with either a little bit of oil or not oil. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

I have to compete with my dogs on that because both my dogs love tofu. It's really amazing when I cook my tofu. As soon as I get a little handful, they're both there sitting looking at me like, oh, please, And it's like, okay, But.

Vesanto Melina

What I learned about dogs was because I knew people were trying to get their dogs to go vegan. But tofu has the sulfur amino acids that help us grow fur and hair.

Kathleen Gage

Really.

Vesanto Melina

Okay. So tofu is better than something like lentils or beans because it's got more sulfur amino acids.

Kathleen Gage

Good to know. Good to know. So let's take a step back into post menopause issues. The whole getting a tire around the belly, men get it a lot. And I saw a man at the store the other day, little tiny butt, little tiny butt and big old belly. And I thought, oh, do you know what you're doing to yourself and obviously not. What can we do to minimize that role that seems to happen? You mentioned all the different options with plant-based eating. How can somebody start?

Vesanto Melina

Start with that.

Kathleen Gage

Yeah. I know that I have people who listen to this show who are just like, they're there. They're with plant-based eating, they're vegan, they're doing it. And then I have the plant curious people. What would you recommend?

Vesanto Melina

So we've got another book called Kick Diabetes Cookbook. It's about 20 bucks, I guess. But it's got no added sugar and no added oil. And so it's good to eat that way. Our protein book or the seniors book that you've got also doesn't use very much of that, but this one really features it. And we've had recipe testers. one in California. They're just a number of different places, but they test our recipes and they're vegans that are really keen to do this. And they won't let a recipe in our book unless it tastes good.

Kathleen Gage

Nice.

Vesanto Melina

We've got recipes. I mentioned that for Kick Diabetes, but it could be considered a weight management book because it is low in the fat. So you've got to cut back and we can make sugar into fat too. So it could be just that you're eating a lot of sugar, soda pop, that kind of thing. And so it's really good to cut back on that, but eat foods that are satisfying. And the legumes are very, very helpful that way. They help control our blood glucose levels.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, I do have a question about legumes because when I first started eating plant-based and I'd hear lentils, legumes, beans, nuts, seeds, all that, I was so confused. Explain to us in very layperson terms what legumes are, how that differs from beans and lentils, or is it part of that whole family?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, so legumes are foods that grow in a pod. So like beans, some beans have, string beans have a little zipper on them and then the beans are inside. Peanuts are in a pod, so they're in that category. Soy beans, and so all the soy foods that are made out of those. So it's the whole range. And lentils, they're cute little things. You probably haven't even seen what a lentil's like, but it's growing in a pod too. So all of these legumes are good protein foods and they happen to take up amino acids very well in the soil when they're growing. And so anyway, it's lentils, beans, and there's like 20 kinds of beans. There's a lot. And they're used all over the world in wonderful different ways. And tofu and soy foods are in that group. And then, as I mentioned, peanuts and even peanut butter. And those will help stabilize our blood sugar because we digest them very gradually. And so it can take a couple hours after a meal before you're hungry again.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, on peanut butter, tell me the kind that's okay to eat and the kind that you might want to avoid because, we've got the Skippy and the Jeff and all that. what are the types of peanut butter that somebody would be okay to eat and how much should they eat?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, well, you can look on the label and what it should say is ingredients, Peanuts.

Kathleen Gage

Okay.

Vesanto Melina

Period. Yeah. And then it says 10 other things like salt.

Kathleen Gage

Well, that's too simple.

Vesanto Melina

Sugar. I love it. I love it. So, yeah, they're good. And there isn't like a rule because for some people, They could be, if they're trying to turn back heart disease, you want to cut back on nuts and seeds and even these healthy fat foods and peanuts, we have some, like one serving, but not a whole pile of it. And then for some people, like the ones that are desperately trying to gain weight, hey, yeah, go for it. You know, those are healthy foods. They've got fiber, they've got lots of vitamins, iron. Yeah.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, wonderful. Well, Vesanto, what should I have asked you that I have not asked you? What's something that you'd like to share that I just haven't asked you that question yet?

Vesanto Melina

Oh, okay. Yes, lots of good things. I guess for people to really be encouraged when you're going more plant-based and don't think you have to be perfect. Like just enjoy the process because people like me that are at this place went through this gradual transition, and I learned how to how to manage in community, how to, and we included this in our book too, but how to talk to people, how to get other people on board. it's just a gradual and you're really doing a wonderful thing when you start making these choices more to go plant-based.

Kathleen Gage

Absolutely. And you brought up another question for me that there are a lot of us that our spouses or our close family members, they're not subscribing to this way of life. And sometimes they can think that, we're being ridiculous. How do you coach people, consult with people who are dealing with that kind of an issue where they really want to stay the course and yet they're not getting support at home or if anything, somebody's trying to sabotage them? It's like when somebody quits drinking, you know, it's like I know what that's like. I quit 43 years ago because I had to. The world was a safer place when I quit drinking. Yeah, in 1983 was when I gave up alcohol. And it was the best choice besides going plant-based that I've ever made. So how can you advise somebody that really wants to save the course, but they just don't feel like they're getting the support that they need?

Vesanto Melina

It's good to find other support that really helps, to look in your community, find a neighbor or friend that wants to make food together once in a while, groups to explore. Now, regarding the person that is not wanting to do this, it's good for them to not have to think they have to go vegan. But if you start feeding them things they like, they go, I could eat that once a month or once a week or I actually like that one. I like that other one you did. So it's actually, I don't think people start off thinking about the animals generally. They start off because that actually tasted pretty good. You know, those Beyond Burgers were as good as beef burgers or, you know, that kind of thing. And then you gradually, start changing things. And also, if you're cooking, this is what's available, they can cook too. You might find when it's out. And that was one of the other things I found, like for kids, when you put it out on the counter, they come home from school, even if they didn't like vegetables that much, and there's a big tray of veggies and hummus, They'll eat that. They'll eat enough vegetables by dinner time. You don't even need to worry about it.

Kathleen Gage

That's great. That's great. Well, Vesanto, this has been delightful. I really, really appreciate your time and I wish you the greatest success with your book, Plant-Based, Plant-Powered Seniors. Because I do know that the older I get, I remember something Tony Robbins said years ago. He said, we're either going to be a warning of what not to do or an inspiration of what's possible. And I look at you and you are an inspiration for where I will be in about 12 years. And I'm just like, I'm right on your heels, girl. And I just so appreciate what you're doing. And I encourage people, go and order your book right now. Read it from cover to cover, underline things, highlight things and really put it into practice. It's truly been a delight. I feel honored to have you on my show. And you've been listening to the Plant-Based Eating for Health podcast show. I'm your host, Kathleen Gage, wishing you a lot of vitality and go out and be plant powered. Have a great day.

Vesanto Melina

And our website is plant-powered protein.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, we'll make sure to put that in the show notes. Plant-powered-protein.

Vesanto Melina

No, only one dash. Plant-poweredprotein.com.

Kathleen Gage

Okay, we'll make sure that goes in the show notes for sure. Have a great day. Thank you.

Vesanto Melina

Thanks.

Kathleen Gage

You've been listening to the Plant-Based Eating for Health podcast show. I'm your host, Kathleen Gage, inviting you to subscribe to this channel wherever you're listening or watching the show. And please let your friends know about the Plant-Based Eating for Health podcast show. Live healthy.