Fran Costigan

Hi, everyone. I'm so glad to see so many people here for this very exciting Essential Vegan Desserts live event from Ruby. I'm Fran Costigan, the Director of Vegan Pastry at Ruby and the lead instructor for the Essential Vegan Desserts course, which I co-created with my talented Ruby colleagues a number of years ago. It's a wonderful course. And this event, all of the live events that we do are so interesting to me. I watch my colleagues' live events because there's always something to learn. This one is really interesting. I have a special guest. I have known Vesanto Melina, who is a renowned registered dietitian living in Vancouver, Canada. I've known Vesanto for many years, and I have all of her books. I'm going to tell you about her books and had the pleasure of having a couple of meals with her recently. Vesanto was in Philadelphia doing a couple of events. One of them was the Peapod conference, which is wonderful. And I said, hey, Vesanto, do you think you could do an event for essential vegan desserts on protein in general, protein added desserts? This is a dessert course, but we do talk about health within the course. So I want to show you Vesanto's latest book. It is called Plant Power Protein, and I have all of these stickers because this book is wonderful. Vesanto has written many books with her co-author, Brenda Davis, who is an Rd. as well. And I just want to read a little bio before I introduce Vesanto. Vesanto Melina, Rd. has co-authored books with Brenda Davis, Rd. that have become classics in the field of vegetarian, vegan, and raw food nutrition. I have Becoming Vegan, Becoming Raw, Kicking Diabetes. I have the updated Becoming Vegan and now Plant Powered Protein. I highly recommend all of these books. There's a link in the chat in the Q&A to Plant Powered Protein. Vesanto has presented talks and workshops on various aspects of vegetarian to both health professionals dietitians, and laypeople like me all across the United States, Canada, and Europe. So I am truly, truly just delighted that Basanta has agreed to spend an hour with us, talking to us, answering questions as well. So today in particular, we're going to discuss ways to add sources of proteins Chick Treats, and you will find on the homepage of this live event two recipes from Vesanto that she graciously gave to us for two cookies. And the one cookie actually Vesanto told me, I found this so interesting that it has as much protein as a burger. Can you imagine that? So I think that's just a wonderful, wonderful thing. Now, those of you who have been listening to me for a while, for years, or even recently, you probably know what I'm going to say to some extent, which is My philosophy is that desserts are treats. So while maple syrup, for example, does contain minerals, and we use whole grain flours and seeds and nuts and other sources of protein and avoid using ingredients that are junk, and you know there are many of them, I don't ever say that you're going to get your nutrition from eating sweets. But there are ways to amp up the sweets with nutrition. For example, this morning, I baked these, what I call oat power muffins. I changed the recipe a little bit. I wanted to use these protein oats from Bob's Red Mill. Some of you may have come to last month's event on oats, and I was very curious about these. They're rolled oats. They are organic. They have 50% more protein than regular oats. So I asked Serena at Bob's, my goodness, I didn't think that Bob's Red Mill would do anything genetically modified, and they're not. It's just a different variety of oats. And she said, isn't science wonderful? And yes, I think science is wonderful. So without further ado, I'm going to introduce our guest, Vesanto Melina.

Vesanto Melina

Thank you, Fran. Wonderful to be here with you.

Fran Costigan

Well, thank you. I'm just delighted. Patrick, actually, would you show the cookies that Vesanto, the photos of Vesanto sent to us? Again, you're going to have the recipes. So we have, what is it? Yeah. The chocolate. Yeah, why don't you tell us about that, Vesanto?

Vesanto Melina

So double chocolate surprise cookies. And of course, I like sweets, but I tend to need to keep my blood sugar level. So I find these really, really helpful. And I keep them in the freezer. They're beautiful little cookies. And the surprise is that they have black beans in them. And it doesn't make them taste like beans. They still taste like double chocolate. And the surprise is the beans. They also have a nut or seed butter and hemp seeds and flax seeds. So the protein content If you eat four of them, which is not very hard to do, you'll have as much protein as a burger. A meat burger, you know, veggie burgers can be 10 to 20 grams of protein. If you eat four of these little cookies, you'll get 14 grams of protein. So they're quite significant.

Fran Costigan

I'm all over that, Vesanto. That's right. Because I love chocolate. And if I can have a cookie that tastes good, and I'm sure that your cookie tastes good and has added protein in it, well, why not? And I love the idea of keeping them in the freezer, too.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, that's what I do. Now, here's some, if you can put the screen, the four. that is as much protein as a burger. So, and these ones on the top have a little bit of chocolate dribbled on them, or the chocolate chips that are in the recipe or showing, or, there's different ways of doing it, but they're really fun. And I also have a grandson that is very, one of these picky eater people, like a superstar picky eater. And I find that the two types of cookies we've got today are ways of getting some nutrition into him when he doesn't really know it. And so that's been an interesting venture as well.

Fran Costigan

I can tell you as a grandmother as well, I have four. My daughter has two sons, and my son has two daughters, as it turns out, and everyone likes to cook. And my grandchildren tend to not be really picky eaters, but it changes. It seems to change over their ages. They have called these oat power muffins, they call them Framma muffins, because they call me Framma. And these are made with whole wheat pastry flour, 100% whole wheat pastry flour, rolled oats, which I did use for the first time today, the protein oats. I make my own oat flour by grinding oats, sometimes toasted, sometimes raw. In my Vitamix, I have a dry grain container, although I've done it otherwise. And I keep it in the freezer because if you correct me if I'm wrong, Vesanto, but oats contain fat, but good fat, and we don't want things to get rancid. So I'm definitely going to make your cookies for my grandchildren and my friends and myself. Now, Patrick, would you show us the carrot cookies? Okay.

Vesanto Melina

So these carrot spice cookies, they don't have beans in them, but what they do have is one of the nut butters and also hemp seeds, flax seeds, and you can have walnuts or pecans. So I've got some of them here as well. And if you can show this picture too, they have a pecan on top if you'd like to decorate them that way. So they end up, they haven't got quite as much protein as the other ones, but they're very nutritious. And again, for a picky eater, they've got carrots in them. And so it's a way of having some additional vegetables. And with all the seeds that we have, the hemp seeds, flax seeds, and possibly walnuts, they have omega-3 fatty acids that are important in the brain. Yeah.

Fran Costigan

Very important. You know, when Vesanto and I were having a meal together, I asked her if I should be taking omega-3 supplements, and she asked about my diet. And I eat hemp, flax, and often chia during each day, and some nuts. And, I'm not really worried about my protein, and I was assured by Vesanto that I'm doing fine. So I think, Vesanto, let's, you know, let's look at them, I would like Patrick to show the chia pudding that I made for, developed this recipe for the Theo Chocolate Cookbook. And I really like this now. I am, we all have different ideas about flavor and consistency. I'm not, I like chia, I use chia, but I don't really love chia puddings necessarily. This one is delicious. And I've got blueberries on there, as you can see. We know that blueberries are very healthy. And cacao nibs in place of walnuts, because I am aware of the fact that there are people who are allergic to tree nuts. So we're going to answer questions, I'm sure, from people who have allergies. I use, as a matter of course, oat milk almost all of the time as my plant milk, because I feel that It's more allergy safe. I don't have to worry about people who are soy avoiders. And I will say, Vesanto, I have been eating soy for 30 years, happily. But there are, yeah, and we should talk about that. There are people who avoid soy, people who have to avoid nuts. And I find that oat works very well. But when I know that I can make something, when the allergies aren't a problem, Then I do use soy milk because the protein content in the soy milk is higher. Way higher. Way higher.

Vesanto Melina

6 to 8 grams per cup of milk compared to one. Like it's really, really different. Although they are making some milks that have a mix of pea protein and hemp protein and so on. But I want to just say about the rumors about soy being bad. A lot of them came from two men. who one of them ate 12 servings of soy a day and one ate 20 servings of soy a day. And they ran into health problems after a year. They weren't friends, they were in very different locations in America. And one of them was 19, one was 60. But you shouldn't be eating 12 or 20 servings of any single food every day for a year. And so the soy rumors are based on those two men who fortunately went to their and their doctors said, hey, don't do that anymore. And they got back to normal again. But the Weston Price and the meat people all really featured those rumors as if soy was bad. And it turns out to be actually the opposite now. We find that soy reduces risk of breast cancer if you give it to your little girls and your teenagers and reduces recurrence of the hormone-related cancers breast and prostate cancer. So for men, it's actually a plus, not a minus, but you should have like up to three or four servings a day is okay, but not 12 or 20.

Fran Costigan

My first teacher, when I changed my diet, when I became plant-based, vegan, macrobiotic, I didn't know any vegans 30 years ago. said, quantity changes quality. And it's just common sense. I have a tendency to like one thing, and I want to eat it all the time, but I feel that if we eat a variety of things, that's the best thing to do. So I've got a question for you from Ruth A. And she is asking, is it safe to add protein powder to homemade flour mixture? So I would ask Ruth why she wants to add protein powder to the homemade flour mixture, but this is a great question for you. I don't use protein powder, and I'd like to know what you think about that, Vesanto.

Vesanto Melina

Okay, I don't use it either, but I've seen places where it can be helpful. For example, if you had a senior with muscle wasting or sarcopenia and who wanted to add muscle mass but was hardly eating anything, you know, just very limited diet or had dental challenges, things like that, like you could put a protein powder in her smoothie, in her, you know, in her baking, in her pancakes, and it would actually help in those kind of situations. Now athletes use protein powders. Mostly they don't need to because they eat so many calories that they easily get enough protein from whole plant foods. But we're finding from research that that the soy proteins are equally good to the whey protein. You see all in the sports stores on shelves, it's whey protein that are touted as muscle builders, but soy protein works perfectly well. And there are some new protein powders that are based on mixes like pea protein. And to my surprise, potato protein seems to be potato protein. Yeah, it has some of the branch chain amino acids that are good for muscle building. thought you'd take an awful lot of potatoes to get that protein, but I guess that's how they do.

Fran Costigan

Well, you know, there is some kind of potato protein that people are using to make vegan macaron, but I don't think it's the same thing. Well, thank you for that. So Sue B has a question that I think I will take. And it is, and you, you know, you jump in, Vesanto. What is the best way to get the outside layer, the skins off chickpeas? So Sue, I'm guessing, I'm just guessing that you want to make a very, very smooth hummus. And there are a couple of ways to do it. You can agitate the chickpeas and sometimes the skin comes off. Or now I will say that I don't do this, but I'm going to tell you that it's a traditional way of cooking chickpeas, treating chickpeas so that the skins will come off. And then I am going to ask Vesanto a question about this. And that is to add for each cup of dried chickpeas, which are going to be soaked and covered with ample water, quite a bit of water to soak them. And I do recommend pre-soaking dried chickpeas to add 1/2 to 1 teaspoon, probably a half a teaspoon of baking soda. Let them soak for 12 hours to 24 hours, and then drain them, rinse them very well, and cook them. Some people go ahead after they do that and they add some more baking soda to the cooking water. I use my cooking water, my aquafaba, to make vegan meringue and so on, so I wouldn't do that. And you will find that way the skins really float off and come up. So Vesanto, I have a question for you about that. And that is, does using a baking soda soak do anything to the nutritional value of the bean?

Vesanto Melina

Well, I do not know at all. I've never even done that. It would affect them somehow. And I just use the soaking water and throw it off or keep it for making aquafaba. We tell people to make sure you do get rid of that if you don't want. We have one section called International Solutions to the Gas Crisis. That is about the oligosaccharides that are in chickpeas and they're in that water. So if you get rid of the water and it doesn't seem to affect the aquafaba, but. It seems to be a problem if you keep too much of that soaking water. So I skim off the foam that comes up.

Fran Costigan

Yes, I think that's very important.

Vesanto Melina

Water and rinse them and then it's gas crisis is solved. Also, people should start more gradually when we're talking about eating more beans. lentils, chickpeas, all that stuff. It's better to be gradually increasing so your gut microbiota gets used to it. Hey, there's different things coming down the tube.

Fran Costigan

Yeah. Well, this is a different situation, and it is really a traditional way of treating chickpeas. Otto Lenge does this. Mike Solomonov does it. My friend Kathy Gold does it. So, you know, you can go ahead and try that, Sue, and see what happens. Sometimes I just wish my cooked chickpeas around in a lot of water and the skins come off. You can also, if you're using canned chickpeas, rinse them and believe it or not, pick them off one at a time or some people even rub them between kitchen cloths the way you would skin a hazelnut. So thank you for that question. Tanja has a question. How can I make protein-packed treats that will get me through a stressful day at work and a 45-minute workout, desperately seeking energy? So what would you suggest, Vesanto, for a little treat?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, Patrick, would you put up not the nutritious snacks yet, but put up the one about the tofu cubes, marinated tofu cubes. So this is a picture of me holding these little tofu cubes. And I'm really interested in having protein as we get older and at any age and for athletes and for kids after school. And these little marinated tofu cubes are really, really helpful. So I discovered them just this year, and they're in our plant powered protein book. But what you do is a marinade that has a bit of tamari, rice vinegar, grated or minced ginger, garlic, and toast, a bit of toasted sesame oil. And it just marinates. And if we go back to quickly a picture here, here's the tofu marinating. And I have this in the fridge all the time pretty well. And then I put them in there, they only need to marinate for half an hour, but often they're there for a couple of days. And I put them in the air fryer. And they're little cubes that are so easy to eat and snack on. And I find they also help me level out my blood sugar because I tend to have trouble keeping my blood sugar level. I have a lot of addictions in my family and alcoholism and diabetes. And I find those of us that are like that often have trouble keeping our blood sugar level. Our insulin doesn't response doesn't keep it level as much as some people's. So I talked to a lot of dietitians and learned about this decades ago, and I help my clients with this kind of situation. But I find that the snacks really need to have something like beans or lentils in them to help keep level. And these tofu cubes are great. You can just have a little package of them with you. So that's one of the helpful snacks. Now, Patrick, if you could put on the one called nutritious snacks, That's another image. And so those tofu cubes are marinated and then air fried. But on this nutritious snacks, you'll see what we called Kentucky Fried Tofu. It was just dipped in tamari and then in nutritional yeast, and you can cook it in a pan or the oven. And so that's at one corner. And then below that is hummus and different veggies or crackers, whole grain crackers. And that's one that I found. This was a thing for kids after school, but for everybody. And TV snacks, if you want to have a healthy snack. So you just put it on the counter when the kids get home from school and there's all these veggies on it and there's crackers and the kids, without saying anything, the kids will just end up eating a whole pile of veggies and some protein before dinner. And these things are just as easy to eat as potato chips, but there's so much more nutritious. Yeah, I don't count potato chips. I don't even keep them in the house.

Fran Costigan

I don't keep them in the house. Actually, I can have potato chips in the house. It's pretzels I can't have. Another thing I would say for protein, and that's, you know, about a nutritious snack is people tend to talk about, you know, dates with hemp and or hemp and oats and as a base because you can make a little protein, a little sweet protein snack. But let's not forget about the other dried fruits, which are really wonderful, really wonderful. So what I want to say also, Tanda, is don't get stressed. Work on your stress too. That will help. Ricky H. is saying, and I'm not surprised, I'm allergic to nuts, but super interested in adding protein to my diet. Looking forward to your class. So, you know, there are so many people who are allergic to nuts today. I find that, for example, if I'm working with somebody who is allergic to walnuts, but I want in a brownie, I want that kind of slightly bitter, yummy crunch. I find cacao nibs work really, really well. And I think you can put those into your snacks, into your, maybe dried fruit snacks. If you're not allergic to flakes, use some of these protein oats. either in the whole form or grind them into a flour and make a paste and make little balls. When Dr. Gregor was launching How Not to Die, so that's quite a number of years ago, that was the first book, he invited me to a small breast gathering at his home. And I made a snack called How Not to Die Balls. And what I did was take the Daily Dozen. I think Vesanto would approve of this snack. And it was a mix of dried fruits and maybe some nuts, certainly hemp seeds and so on. Oh, we have a wonderful question from Char Nolan. So many of you, I think, know Charlene Nolan. Char is a very dear friend of mine and a colleague at Ruby. Char is an instructor of great renown and very well-known, very well-versed in whole food, plant-based. cooking and what a delight. So Shar is saying, hi, Fran and Vesanto. What ideas might you have for a fun dessert that is nut free and oil free for Thanksgiving dinner? Fran, this will be a dessert for 60 at the farm. Wow. So Shar is volunteering. Shar has been working at a wonderful farm situation where you see she needs a dessert for 60 people. She's been providing these whole food plant-based meals for people that come so that they can have a nutritious meal and learn about plant-based nutrition. I'll tell you what I would do and then we'll see what Basanti thinks. Shar, when I saw this question, the first thing that popped into my mind was to make a pumpkin type pudding or mousse. Pumpkin has a lot of nutrition. I actually like using squash, either butternut squash or kombucha squash because they're so sweet. Pureeing them, you can add the healthy spices. You know, there is a lot of nutrition in spice, Char. I know that you know that. And if you would like to blend in some tofu as well, the strong flavor of the, those warm spices in the pumpkin should really help you. And then let it set up, and you can put them into little dishes. You don't want any nuts, but maybe you can put some hemp seeds on the top, sesame seeds if that isn't an allergen for you. And you can always do a little tiny drizzle of a high percentage chocolate. So that's what I think. And I hope that you'll send me some pictures, Char, of what you do at this farm dinner. Char's on her way to Italy, everybody. Isn't that wonderful?

Vesanto Melina

So that's what I think. Okay. Well, this is one that I do with kids. And we've done it with a lot of different people, indigenous people, lots of people. But we have frozen banana ice cream. And we put it through a champion juicer and add some strawberries. And it's fun because all the people get to push down the frozen bananas. So the bananas are peeled 1st and broken into about half or a third of the length of the banana, put on trays in the freezer, and then they're all frozen. And you can just, it's really simple. Like you can make a banana ice cream by adding other things like tofu too.

Fran Costigan

Do that, Vesanto, and it's wonderful, with berries, with chocolate. But that's not going to work for Shar because she has, she's not going to be in a place with a freezer. But that is something that people should remember, but to make banana nice cream is what we call it. It's wonderful. Yeah. that's great. Vegan Das. I love that. I'm going to use that. Sue wants to know if you can cook desserts in the Instant Pot. And the answer is, get Jill Nassenau's book, Vegan Under Pressure. She has desserts in here. One of her desserts is living on my website. You can just, you know, go to recipes and find it. So I haven't made, I think Jill has actually cakes in there. I use it very occasionally to do some applesauce or baked apples. I tend to do those in the oven. But yes, the answer is yes, you can. I put a link to Vegan Under Pressure in the Q&A here and I recommend it. And it's for the charts on bean cooking alone, it's worth it. Here's a great question for you, Vesanto. Is it best to aim for satisfying protein requirements in each meal or to spread protein intake across the day?

Vesanto Melina

That is a good question. And we should say, Not or, but and. We want to have protein at each meal and we want to spread it through the day. So that means that you can have protein at breakfast. It could be soy milk on your cereal, or it could be some of these muffins that Fran's talking about, or my husband has toast and peanut butter every day. Just simple, simple, simple. because peanuts are a legume, they're in a pod, so they're in that family. And then for lunch, have some beans, some lentils. There's actually 20 types of legumes, beans, peas, lentils, soy foods, and then have that at supper as well. And that really helps keep your protein at the optimal level. You don't need huge amounts, but just to spread it through the day. This also helps keep your blood sugar level, because if you try and go more plant-based, and just have like salad at lunch. It just doesn't sustain you through the afternoon. Yeah.

Fran Costigan

I have noticed that. I have noticed. I'm sorry for interrupting. I've noticed that because I like big salads, but I add beans and, you know, some brown rice or black rice. I add protein tofu. I talked about that. I love tofu. So I always have a protein source in my salad. Or I will make a dressing with hemp, which is nice and creamy. So that's great information. Thank you.

Vesanto Melina

I had one more about the person that was interested in no nuts. So what we suggested in the double chocolate surprise cookies was that they could have peanut butter. or nut butter or seed butter. And often with an allergy test, they'll even say, you know, you're allergic to nuts or you're allergic to almonds, something like that. But peanuts are, even though they've got the nut word in there, they're actually a legume. They're a completely different family. And seed butters are also a different botanical family. So often we find that if we just leave out, we wouldn't put walnuts in that one for a nut allergy person. There's good alternatives there. And we've listed these alternatives in the Plant Powered Protein book.

Fran Costigan

Right. You know, today I know I know this from being a grandmother that peanuts are not allowed in school. Right.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah.

Fran Costigan

Whether or not they're or not. Yeah. So Ruth wants to know, Ruth is looking for easy protein packed treats low in fat and carbohydrates. I, you know, I feel that if you aren't adding different kinds of fat, right? I don't worry about fat in nuts. I mean, I'm not going to eat a whole jar. This looks like I did, but I just made, I just made a lot of walnut butter, I think. So I don't worry about that or some avocado, which I find is a treat, but watch it. What would you say about that, Vesanto?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, well, carbohydrates have a bad name because about 90% of the carbohydrates that people eat in North America are the refined white flour and sugar. The corn syrup that's in 25% of North American carbohydrates is from pop. it's crazy what we've got. So the carbohydrates that are in every plant food, every single one in whole plant foods, those are good carbs. And they have this gradual delivery, especially those in legumes. And we actually need carbohydrates to run our brains. We need about 150 to 250 grams of carbohydrates a day just to keep your brain running. So these low carb diets that ignore getting carbohydrates from a good place, you know, it's smart to leave out these bad, very refined carbs. That's a good idea. But you don't want to totally lump all the carbohydrates together. You want to say, hey, I'm going to get my carbohydrates from whole grains, from legumes, peas, lentils, even from things like carrots and apples and, you know, just the whole plant world. There's no carbohydrates in animal products, except for the sugar in milk. But otherwise...

Fran Costigan

That's very interesting.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah.

Fran Costigan

That's very interesting. Yeah, you know, we get, I get questions about that all the time and I eat whole grain. I eat whole grains, you know, I, because I'm certain at this point that because I am not eating refined foods, that my body knows when it doesn't feel so well. I need to have some brown rice. I need to have, even potatoes. Oh my goodness. I was so worried about potatoes for years, you know, before I saw the light. All of this is really important but thank you for saying that about keeping your brain going. So because, oh my goodness, I want to do everything I can there. Sunita is asking for an easy fruit and dark chocolate recipe. Oh, Sunita, how long have you got? I've got so many. You can take dried fruit, for example. I use, I buy fruit that is not, that doesn't have sulfites. So your apricots are going to be darker than the bright yellow ones, for example. And dip them in some chocolate ganache. So this is a ganache that I made, and this is one of the recipes and one of the assignments in essential vegan desserts, actually. I did this one with soy milk. Often, if I'm doing desserts for a crowd, that's when I will use oat milk because I don't know. I'm just assuming that there will be nut and soy avoiders. This was made with high percentage chocolate. So the higher the percentage of chocolate, the lower the cacao, the lower the sugar is. And soy milk, two ingredients. If you want, you can, for a sheen, you can add a little bit of extra virgin olive oil. It's not necessary. You can add some Sea salt, it's not necessary. I will often divide that up. I made this really because I'm doing a birthday cake tomorrow. I'm starting to assemble it, and this can be done ahead and just rewarmed. But sometimes I put some of the really healthy spices, like chai spices or ginger or turmeric, ancho chili in a portion of my ganache, and then just dip your fruit, your dried fruit in that, and it's a way to go. Now, actually, I did this as a protein treat. This qualifies as a treat. So what this is, I took whole grain sourdough baguette, and I spread it with some of this ganache, as you can see. It is really delicious. On this one, I finished it with, I sliced up some grapes, and I sprinkled with sesame seeds, or you could sprinkle with chopped pistachio nuts, you could sprinkle it with hemp seeds, whatever you want. People who are not avoiding oil will take this crostini, that's what it's called, a chocolate crostini, and drizzle it with a lot of olive oil. So that's certainly an easy fruit and dark chocolate recipe. Latanya wants to know what she can use besides nutritional yeast. She doesn't like the flavor. Well, I would like to know what it is that you are making, nutritional yeast, mooch, as we call it, has a bit of a funky flavor. Some people use it as a cheese type. I know Chef Char doesn't ever call it cheesy. To me, it adds a little bit of funky cheese, but don't use it, LaTanya. Now, she has another question. I'd like to make the chocolate cookies but cannot have caffeine. Are there options for chocolate without caffeine? Vesanto, I want to ask you if what I have learned or read is in fact true. If you can't have any caffeine, if you're allergic to chocolate, then it is not good for you. Now, you take the healthiest food. If it isn't appropriate for you, it's not healthy. But I heard that the caffeine was tied to the amount of fat in the cacao powder. Is that so? Or do you have a suggestion about the chocolate cookies? I would say don't make the chocolate cookies. That would be my answer.

Vesanto Melina

I'd agree and go for the carrot spice cookies instead.

Fran Costigan

Right. Yeah.

Vesanto Melina

I think Kathleen, some people are sensitive, like my husband is, and it'll keep him awake. Whereas, so we're so unique individually. You got to know how to run your own machine. Yeah.

Fran Costigan

That is a great advice because that's the truth. People will say to me sometimes, well, I want to make this recipe. It looks so good, but I can't have A, B, C, D. And I have to say, well, then that recipe is not for you. There are many others. So you just affirm that. Cynthia has a question about chocolate chips. Thanks. In regards to using chocolate chips, could you explain the type of chocolate to buy and not to buy healthy cocoa powder? Also, I have Trader Joe's cocoa powder, no fat or sugar. Well, Cynthia, let's talk about the cocoa powder first. Cocoa powder has, is, does have some fat in it. There is no such thing as no fat. Cocoa powder is defatted chocolate that has been defatted, unsweetened chocolate that has been pulverized into a powder. And cocoa powders are much lower in fat than a solid chocolate, that is for sure, but they range from the very low end, and that's rather unusual, is 10% up to 24% fat. And there are different kinds. So the Trader Joe Cocoa Powder, I am familiar with it. That is a what's called a natural or a non-alkalized cocoa powder. And then there is Dutch processed or alkalized cocoa powder. And both those cocoa powders range in the amount of fat. I have high fat non-alkalized cocoa fatter, for example. But when we're talking about high fat, we're talking about 22% of the whole thing, which isn't very much. And in essential vegan desserts, we go through this very carefully because if you're making hot cocoa, for example, use the cocoa powder that you prefer. We have a tasting exercise in the course and people are just amazed. They're like, wow, I really learned a lot there. And in comparing the two kinds. So the one you like better, that's personal, but when you go to bake with cocoa powder, you need to use the one that is, excuse me, specified in the recipe. There are different needs. Your recipe won't work. In terms of using chocolate chips, well, I only use chocolate chips, maybe in a chocolate cookie never to make something like a fine ganache because a chocolate chip is a heat resistant chocolate. It has ingredients in it that are going to help it keep its shape. So I always look for a high quality chocolate, whether it's a chocolate chip or a chocolate bar or, you know, I have quantities of chocolate. I look for organic, I look for fair trade, and I look for high percentage chocolate. And then, as Vesanto said before, know your own machine. Everyone has a different idea of flavor. So I thought early on that all 70% chocolates would taste the same. They don't. You know, it's like wine. There's terroir. How was the, where was the chocolate grown? How was it roasted? There's a lot that goes on. So find out what you like. Tracy wants to know, what are some of the best ways to boost protein without also adding more fat? What do you say about that?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, if you look at what animal products are, usually their meat is 50% or so fat. People think of it as a protein food, but it's actually a fat food. Cheese can be 75% calories from fat, 30% protein, 25% protein. So what we think of as protein foods have a lot of fat in them. Now, if you look at this may surprise you, legumes, things like kidney beans, lentils and so on, those have 3% calories from fat, like hardly any. It's really, really different. So What we've done, and in our Kick Diabetes cookbook, that's one that has been really popular, it has no added fat and no added sugar because people's insulin receptors are affected by high fat levels. So what we've done there is make sure that the fat in your foods is coming from whole plant foods. So, you know, even lettuce, is 10% calories from fat. Very, very good fat. And those are omega-3 fatty acids. They'll help your brain and so on. I mean, you've got to eat a lot of lettuce to get much fat. But you don't need to worry too much about a lot of plant foods having fat. Now, there are definite fatty choices like avocados, nuts, seeds, but they're still sort of in the same range as animal products that we think of as protein foods.

Fran Costigan

The fiber does help as well. So I agree with Vesanto 100% and thank you for that answer. Sarah says, Vesanto helped me recently with a one-on-one nutrition consultation. Isn't that wonderful? Thank you for sharing that. Yes, okay.

Vesanto Melina

They talk to a lot of people that are all, you know, have their unique situation. They want to gain weight, gain weight, help them out.

Fran Costigan

Okay. So I'm going to just keep answering, asking questions because of my goodness, we have so many good questions and we don't want to go too much over. T. Colin Campbell suggests 10 to 15% fat. I'm asking because I don't eat meat, so I'm trying to follow a low-fat, whole foods diet. Oh my goodness, if you're not eating meat, you don't have to worry. That's what I would say.

Vesanto Melina

Brendan and I worked with Dean Ornish on reversing heart disease. Decades ago, we were dietitians in those heart disease reversal. And that's when I learned that lettuce has 10% calories from fat. So what you want is plant foods, avoid the nuts and seeds or really limit them and go for the ones that have some omega-3 fatty acids like the flap, flax and hemp and chia. those are good ones to include. And then you're keeping your brain going, but you don't have much fat. And remember, the legumes are really low in fat, typically. Now, chickpeas go up to 15% calories from fat. And soy foods have about the same as animal products, sort of in the 40s percent calories from fat.

Fran Costigan

And it's healthy. I'm still laughing about the lettuce thing because when I get asked, you know, I'm a dessert person. That's my specialty. I happen to be a very good savory cook and I like to cook too. And I can eat desserts because over my shoulder, those are all beans. And I always have produce and so on. But I always say to people who are like, where do you get your protein? That old, where do you get your protein? There's protein and lettuce. And now I can tell you, Vesanto said so too. Lucy says, hello, dear friend. Greeting from San Luis, Mexico. Hello, Lucy. It's so nice that you joined us from Mexico. And Lucy is in our essential vegan desserts course. So thank you for being here. Dr. KK says, the carrot recipe mentions tahini, the Brandeis have says it does not need refrigeration after opening. How can that stay usable with that refrigeration? So I want to take this one because I love tahini. I keep mine in the refrigerator. most of the time, but I have a trick for, I use Soom tahini, that's S-O-O-M. It is the Soom sisters, three sisters from Philadelphia, sell this tahini. And to me, to my mind, it's just fabulous. When I open a jar, Kathy, Chef Kathy Gold and I just shared a case of this tahini because it does hold. I actually use my immersion blender, my stick blender, when I get a new jar of tahini, I just blend it up and it stays blended. And I sometimes do that with other nut butters too. So that's a trick that I think really works. Monica is asking about pine nuts. I bought a huge bag of pine nuts from Costco for pesto and dessert ideas with pine nuts. Pine nuts are wonderful. They're buttery. And we do. We actually have a chart in the course where the crust, the cookie crust, anything that isn't a rolled out crust, I call a cookie crust that has to be pressed into a tart pan, has a percentage of pine nuts in it. And I just think they're wonderful. I use them. I have an orange almond cake that really I developed after going to Italy a number of years ago and I use pine nuts there. Keep your pine nuts in the freezer. They are high fat and they will go rancid. Cynthia says, Vesanto, thank you. Would you again confirm tofu protein? There are a couple of plant-based doctors that recommend low-fat tofu, but the low-fat is also soft and lower in protein. Do you have a comment?

Vesanto Melina

No, I just like regular tofu made with soybeans, not with extraction and that kind of thing, yeah.

Fran Costigan

So, I agree with that. Bianca has a question about a recipe in the course, when a recipe calls for coconut butter, i.e. in the chocolate ganache torte, what would be a good substitute that helps the torte set? So let me tell people that this is a raw, torte insofar as it is not baked. And the coconut butter, now coconut butter is different from coconut oil. It is really a whole food. It has coconut, it has a lot of fiber in it, but at room temperature, it is solid. So it actually has to be melted to be able to be used. And then it is blended into the mixture, and it helps to set this cacao powder, date, nut butter, luscious, really rich filling. I would say if you don't want to use it, Bianca, then you would need to use something else that's going to help set the tort. I would use more nut butter, for example, more cocoa powder, and that should help. Hi, Dimitra. Oh, I'm so happy to see Dimitra Stamos here. Dimitra is another colleague at Ruby, one of our really great instructors. And I know Dimitra is an athlete, so She says, hello to you both. Vesanto, what do you recommend in terms of protein amount and sources of vegan female athletes should be eating? And do I have any sweet treats to recommend based on Vesanto's recommendation? I do want to say that this book has a whole chapter on vegan athletes. So you want to make some suggestions to my friend Dimitra?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, we find a lot of times that athletes who are exercising quite a bit, when they're eating whole plant foods, they get protein in every single one of those plant foods. So it turns out they're getting like 14% of calories from protein anyway, and it ends up to quite significant amounts. Now, we use that idea about having protein at each meal, of course, and we've included things in our plant-powered protein book, like, you know, breakfast, how do you make your oatmeal even more nutritious, more protein packed, you know, by adding the seeds, the nuts, the soy milk or one of those rich protein milks and having lunch and supper. And it really adds up pretty quickly for athletes. Now, some athletes are on the skinny side, you know, they're gymnasts or something. And then we have to make a little bit more of an effort to pack the protein in each meal, if they're not eating that many calories. And then the other third thing is that people who just go to fitness classes three times a week or whatever, do exercise every day for up to an hour, those people do not have to increase their protein to these really high levels. So it was pretty easy to get protein, but we did definitely include a chapter about protein, protein levels, getting it up to, 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram body weight, close to double the usual recommendation. Exactly how to do that in the Plant Powered Protein book. Thank you.

Fran Costigan

So Demetra, I want to tell you one is one of my absolutely favorite things. It's so like, don’t be easy, and it's certainly not original, although I feel like I was doing this way ahead of the Joel dates, which are not dried fruits, actually. and I pit it. And I want everyone to know that when you are pitting your dates, you really need to look inside because every once in a blue moon, you're going to see some black in there and that's mold and you want to get rid of that. So then I will, and I carry these around with me, I will sometimes put some chocolate ganache in here, often some nut butter or a nut, might dip them in chocolate and some hemp seeds, But I find that this is a really helpful snack for me. And again, I'm going to dig out my how not to die bites and get that information to you. But that's what I would do. Also, those are the sweet treats by Dimitra. I think Vesanto's tofu bites would be great. Tracy is talking about dried lupine beans because they're high in protein. She's soaked them overnight, cooked them for 90 minutes, then soaked again for six days. is changing the water daily. They're still firm. Any tips? I don't know about that. I haven't cooked lupin beans. I did just buy some lupin flour though. It sounds like you have really old ones, maybe. And if you cook them for nine, you soak them, you cook them, you soak them again for six days, changing the water daily, they're still firm. I would get rid of those. What about you, Vesanto?

Vesanto Melina

That's funny. Yeah, when they get older, they take a lot more cooking.

Fran Costigan

Right. But something that you had to soak for six days, changing the water, I would just get rid of that. Dave, I'm sorry that we can't help you. with that. So you have to be practical sometimes. Dave has got a question about his own salted caramel maple cream sauce from sap to syrup. Dave, are you saying that you're able to make You have, you're tapping Maple. I want to come visit you. This is something, this is something that's on my wish list. I want to do that. We have, let's make a date to do that. So I've been making a vegan version using coconut cream and vegan butter. After I seal the jars, it will separate. Why? Well, there are a couple of reasons, Dave. Coconut cream and coconut butter at room, they do separate back into the oily part. And it sounds like your maple cream, maple cream, something like this is also sensitive to temperature. So I don't really know what you can do. And it's interesting to me that you're using both coconut cream and vegan butter. Maybe try some coconut butter instead. And get, use, I don't know if you're using an immersion blender when you make your cream, but I would definitely suggest that you do that and maybe keep your cream in the freezer instead of the refrigerator. Just whisk it really well before you use it again. Sounds delicious and I'm a little jealous of you. Kate wants to know what's an accurate method to measure Medjool dates. Weight, some are drier than others, so that could affect the weight. Packed in a measuring cup, if so, firmly, packed or snugly. Kate, that's a really good question. So I happen to have a cup of Medjool dates here. I don't measure them this way. I use a scale for everything. Now, our recipes in the course are in ounces and cups. We have students all over the world. So the flours are different, things are different. I can't say to everyone you have to use, for example, King Arthur flour with this exact amount of protein and weight. So you follow the recipe and you take out one of your scales. This particular one, I can weigh in ounces, milliliters, grams, and I really like that. I see many recipes will say instead of a cup of dates, because that's really difficult to, you know, 10 medjool dates, for example. When you weigh them, I would weigh them pitted 10, Eight to 10 medjool dates tends to be what is considered a cup and try to, find ones that are pretty even. I use a company called Rento Medalucho Dates that just the dates are really beautiful, but that is certainly not the only one. It shouldn't matter too much in your recipe. It's not like a flower Measurement. I mean, I'm getting ready. It's the time of the year for me to make my favorite not-so-sticky date pudding, which I love, and there's a lot of dates there. We have two more questions here. Susan wants, this is important, recipes that are protein-packed but school-friendly, no nuts, and a preference for no tahini or sunflower seed, no oats, and gluten-free. You know, to me, I'm hearing fruit. I'm hearing cut up apples. I'm hearing dried fruits, if that's available to you. Do you have any ideas about that?

Vesanto Melina

No, she just, you want food for schools? Like it isn't just fruits.

Fran Costigan

School friendly. No nuts, no tahini, sunflower seeds, no oats, and gluten free. You know, so that's why I said I'm hearing fruit.

Vesanto Melina

No, you got to have some protein for those kids. And did she say no tofu?

Fran Costigan

No, didn't say no tofu, but it could be, it could, you know, it could be that this child is, or these children all have allergies that are keeping them away from nuts, tahini, sunflower seeds, oats, and are gluten-free. So your tofu bites do sound good.

Vesanto Melina

After I saw you in Philadelphia, I went and talked to the New York school people that are moving food to 800,000 kids a day. And they are making really good meals for those kids that the kids don't pitch in the garbage. Like they're, and they're on Fridays and now starting on Mondays, they're having plant-based meals. And they've stopped serving, they're serving hot, no hot dogs, no sausage, no pepperoni, none of those carcinogens. But so, but they've got things like falafels, which you could make without tahini. And they've got, the menus are developing. So we have to keep an eye on the New York schools. But you can easily have, things like hummus. You don't have to put tahini in hummus.

Fran Costigan

You don't have to put tahini in hummus. That's right. So that's a good idea, Susan. Some spreads or even, you know, a white bean spread can be really yummy. Or if you're looking for a treat kind of thing, where is it? So this happens to be sum. dark chocolate and sea salt tahini. It's delicious. But I make my own with making a hummus. And for your situation, and that is gluten-free, I would leave out the tahini. I would use cocoa powder, you know, which is sugar-free. And then add some I mean, that's going to have a that's going to have a lot of protein in it. So why don't you try that? That's really difficult. Our last question.

Vesanto Melina

And there's more chocolate surprise cookies that have as much protein in it.

Fran Costigan

Well, no, she can’t have nuts, so it's not going to work.

Vesanto Melina

You don't have to put nuts. You can put peanut butter and you can put seeds. I didn't put.

Fran Costigan

No, there's no peanut butter in schools, Vesanto. Not here. Right. But I will tell you. I am delighted that you know that you spoke with the people at New York Coalition for Healthy School Food. I've been on the board of that organization from the very beginning, and they're making such amazing strides. We have a final question here from Manisha. Hi, Fran. How much protein can be consumed in a day? And is it good if we intake large number of protein if we are in low carb diet. So I'm going to give that to you, Vesanto.

Vesanto Melina

Well, those low carb diets are not very health supportive because you need the carbs to run your brain, like 150 grams of carb. So they're not long-term sustainable, but you can get plenty of protein from plant foods. And a lot of North Americans get about twice the protein they need. So you need just, usually for adults, it's something like 40 to grams of protein a day. Yeah, and one meat burger or veggie burger can have like 10 to 20 grams of protein. So you see, you just build it in in each meal from whole plant foods and you're fine. But it does cause problems when we get way up. It's hard for your kidneys. They have to remove amino acids and the nitrogen, and it turns out not to be good to have very, very high protein.

Fran Costigan

Right. Well, I'm going to remember what you said about the, protein and keeping, there's been, you have given us such a tremendous amount of good information. Vesanto, I thank you so much. I want to thank everybody for coming. I definitely recommend this book, Vesanto's book, plant-powered protein. I'm getting ready to dig back in. I've been using a highlighter. And any of the other books, and you can see Vesanto's website is on the document. Enjoy the recipes. If you have any questions for me, you can write to me at fran@ruby.com. You can, people in Essential Vegan Desserts, I just want to remind you, if you have a problem or a situation, a problem of a technical nature, write to support at Ruby.com. Don't forget to join our private Facebook group for Essential Vegan Desserts. That's a great place to ask questions about I'm looking for a new mixer, or have you tried this? And thank you so much for being here. I hope to see you in November. Take care, everyone.