Plant Powered Seniors - Healthy Aging After 50 with Davis and Melina

Steve

Okay, so welcome everyone. We are here to have a special webinar for Brenda and Vesanto's brand new book. So this is going to be our book launch webinar for their book that is called Plant Powered Seniors that is coming out tomorrow. So we could all buy it on Amazon or wherever. So why don't, there it is, okay. So why don't we each start by Vesanto, why don't you just introduce yourself for a moment and tell everyone about this book and then Brenda introduce you as well. And you could tell us again your reasons for writing this book and then I'll move on to some questions. So Vesanto, why don't you start?

Vesanto Melina

Great. we authors of this Plant Powered Seniors are actually seniors ourselves. And so we not only have a lot of scientific experience, I'm A dietitian, Brenda's A dietitian, and we had the good fortune of a doctor joining us, Dr. Charlyn Black. So we had a lot of scientific background, but we also got our seniors right now. So we I'm actually 84 and Charlyn’s in her 70s and Brenda's in her 60s, even though she's such a fit person.

Brenda Davis

67 to be exact.

Vesanto Melina

And so we also are finding, you know, the people we know, the clients we have that are seniors are having lots of challenges in health. And unfortunately, some are ending up with a lot of medication, doctor visits, being bedridden, can't do things that they really love, have to quit hiking or playing with their grandchildren, that kind of thing. And so actually about 90 to 93% of seniors have some kind of health condition. disease condition really. And so we know that going more plant powered can lower the risk. And we've outlined in our book 15 different conditions and how you can lower your risk and exact details about how to do that. So one thing, instead of surrendering to these challenges and really feeling an end of life that's rather sad, you can have a great other outcome. So Brenda, do you want to add some things to that?

Brenda Davis

Oh, absolutely. You know, Vesanto and I, I just want to give you guys a little bit of background because it's kind of fun. We started writing books together in 1992. And back then, vegetarian diets were considered kind of risky. Vegan diets were considered pretty much downright dangerous by a lot of people in mainstream medicine. And our careers have been all about changing that narrative. It's really been about helping to empower people at every stage of life who want. to make more conscious choices, to leave a healthier planet for our future generations who want to be, who want to reduce pain, suffering, and death in animals, but who also want to be really healthy for their whole entire lives, that long health span. That's been really our purpose. We just want people to succeed so well. And as Vesanto said, seeing unique challenges for seniors. And the issue is, is that, you know, we become a little more nutritionally vulnerable. And the reason is, is we tend to eat a little less, but our nutrient needs either don't change or actually increase for several nutrients. So every bite we take, you know, the diets need to be more nutrient dense. And so, yeah, I mean, there's nothing that brings us more joy than to see plant-based seniors who are really thriving. We end up being the example. People say, wow, we're on 14 medications. They're not on any. So we just want to make sure people get this right. And so that's what writing this book was really all about.

Steve

Okay, so let me just tell everyone why we're having this webinar. The reason we're having this webinar is The Real Truth About Health Conference has a conference every year with 85 speakers. And I partly have a concern about our conferences because when we have the conference, we give the speakers an opportunity to speak for two hours to an audience and say whatever they want. We don't vet them, we don't check them. And even though we have really great speakers, we end up with a lot of different information and people are saying all different things. Now, this isn't that much of a problem if you're 23 years old because a lot of 23-year-olds get away with anything. They eat good, they eat bad, a lot of them still end up okay. But now that some of us are in our 60s and some of us are getting older and we're seeing our peers have real issues, the kind of issues that we definitely don't want, we want to get this right. We really want to have this accurate. We want accurate information. We don't want to just jump on the bandwagon and say, well, I love the personalities of all these speakers, so let me just agree with whatever they say. We really want the data, the science, the studies to see what's accurate. And even though I like all the speakers, I have a particular fondness for Brendan Vesanto because they do very intense research, and I have a great amount of trust that their information is accurate. And again, for those of us who so much want to maintain our health, we really want to get this accurate. We don't want to just be listening to everyone because not everyone seems to have the same information. So I personally believe that Brenda and Vesanto have information that we want, that they've done the research for you. They've studied this carefully. And I am definitely buying this book tomorrow, not as a favor to them, as a favor to me, because I want to get this right. I don't want to goof around when it comes to my health.

Vesanto Melina

Thank you. I want to say a quote from Dr. David Katz. A diet of minimally processed foods, close to nature, predominantly plants, is decisively associated with health promotion and disease prevention. And the Eat Lancet people go on to add that it's also tied in with environmental sustainability. And so we're finding this from the most respected nutrition people in the world that going more plant-based is a big plus.

Steve

Okay, let me just, for those people who don't know Brendan Vesanto, just let me read you a short bio of them. So Vesanto Molina, MSRD, is co-author of Plant Powered Protein, which reached number one on Amazon.com for sustainability. Hold on a second. Of the Kick Diabetes Cookbook, which is used in New York hospitals and of the award-winning Becoming Vegan, Comprehensive Edition, which is a textbook in the US, Canada and Taiwan, all with Brenda Davis. Their books are in 10 languages regarded as classics on plant-based nutrition, and they also co-authored Becoming Vegetarian, Becoming Raw, and Becoming Vegan, Express Edition. Vesanto is lead author of the last position paper on vegetarian nutrition that addressed the entire lifespan for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. She's an internationally known speaker, having spoken in 10 countries. She received a Lifetime Achievement Award and the prestigious Clintech Award for leadership in dietetics. She regularly consults for individual clients. To complement her scientific expertise is Vesanto's joy in creating food that is healthy, delicious, and simple to prepare. She became vegetarian in 1978 and vegan in 1993, and she gradually explored the consequences of food choices on health, animal welfare, and environmental issues. If you go to therealtruthabouthealth.com and you go to speaker bios, you can find Vesanto's You can find her website, www..nutrispeak.com. That's N-U-T-R-I-S-P-A-K.com. And that would be great. Let me tell you a little bit about Brenda, Brenda Davis. And you can go to brendadavisrd.com. It's a registered dietitian, is one of the world's leading plant-based pioneers and an internationally acclaimed speaker. She's widely regarded as a rock star of the plant-based nutrition and Veg News referred to her as the godmother of vegan dietitians. As A prolific nutrition and health writer, Brenda has authored, co-authored 14 books with nearly a million copies in print in 15 languages. Her most recent works include Plant-Powered Seniors with Vesanto, Plant-Powered Seniors, Plant-Powered Protein, and Nourish, the Definitive Plant-Based Nutrition Guide for Families. Also, Kick Diabetes Essentials, the Kick Diabetes Cookbook, Becoming Vegan Comprehensive Edition, and Becoming Vegan Express Edition. Nourish, the book Nourish won gold in the 2020 Nautilus Book Awards and was also a Canada Book Award winner. Becoming Vegan Comprehensive Edition won a 2014 Real Best of 2014 Book Award and Becoming Vegan Express Edition won the Canada Book Award and was a finalist and received honorable mention in the Forward Book of the Year Award. Becoming Vegan Comprehensive and Express Editions have also received a star rating by the American Library Association as the go-to books on plant-based nutrition. Brenda has been a featured speaker at medical nutrition and dietetic conferences in over 28 countries on six continents with colleagues Dr. John Kelly, founding president of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. She was the lead dietitian in a diabetes lifestyle medicine trial in the Marshall Islands and a lifestyle intervention demonstration project for the medical community in Lithuania. I'm going to stop there, the bio goes on. So anyway, I am going to ask you some questions about this book. But just in general, after writing so many books, what's different about this book than all the previous books that you read, wrote, that made you decide that you wanted to have this book?

Vesanto Melina

It's our best, our best book. It's really good. I was dazzled. It took a bit longer to write. It's got fully referenced in the book, but it was really wonderful to do. And the science has changed so much over the years and decades, and it's been coming out thick and fast. And we really captured some very important practical points. And we have an advantage here. that Brenda really dives into the science. She makes food that's very gourmet and beautiful and does it fast. And she has a lot of neat qualities and I have kind of opposite qualities. I like things very simple and I'm like the Johnny Cash of like the short words and all that stuff. So we really had a good combination in this book. And then Dr. Sharlyn Black's medical expertise helped out. Brenda? Yeah, yeah.

Brenda Davis

And I think I would just add that we really saw a gap in the literature because there wasn't a comprehensive resource that was sort of like a guidebook for people in their later years of how to do plant based diets really, really well. And so we were, I mean, I was really excited for that reason that, you know, we were filling an important gap and we want, we want people to move forward with confidence that this really is the diet that will best support them in achieving, not just adding years to your life, but as David Katz always says, add life to your years. You know, we want to, like my thing is I just want to continue doing what I love. And I think that's the case for most of us. We want to be productive. We want to enjoy life to the bitter end. And so that's really, you know, that was in the forefront of our minds as we created this resource for people.

Steve

Are you a little bit shocked or surprised by how many people, in their 60s and older are having health challenges. Because now that I'm 63 and people whisper to me what's going on, I'm sometimes a little bit like, a little like shocked, like how many people are dealing with stuff. And it kind of overwhelms me. And sometimes I feel like I gotta be, I don't even know what level of health I should, how extreme I should be, because sometimes it's really a little bit much how many people are dealing with things. So I guess, are you surprised about it? And also, how do we approach this so that we don't overreact? In other words, on one hand, every time someone has a heart attack, you feel like you want to be even more careful. But at the same time, we want to enjoy our lives. So what is your approach to taking this seriously and yet not going so far that we are afraid to do anything?

Brenda Davis

I can begin. First of all, I think it's important for people to recognize none of us are bulletproof. Even if you do everything perfectly or as perfectly as humans can do anything, genetics, environment, our social circumstances, there are so many things that play a role in our aging trajectory. But we also know that the most important thing is our choices in life, our daily lifestyle choices. And the other thing I think is really important to say is regardless of our age, I often think that you look at two people of the same age, they can have very, very different health profile. And it's, we can boil it down often to those lifestyle choices, but it is never too late for any of us to change the trajectory that we're on. We can't underestimate the power that we have to reclaim our own health. And I think I'm getting off topic a little bit, but certainly, if you start thinking about all of the things that we do that contribute, we know as Vesanto said, 90 to 93% of people in North America have at least one chronic disease that are above the age of 65. 80% of people have two or more. And most of it is really preventable. Even though we're not bulletproof, there's so much we can do to ensure that we enjoy the later years of our lives.

Vesanto Melina

So we've been having a good time sometimes with clients who have type 2 diabetes. six, eight months later, hey, I don't have it anymore. You know, I'm considered in remission or, and that's true for the other chronic conditions. Or you can cut your symptoms down. And I find too that typically when people are 60, things start happening and you can catch them right then and turn it around. And so that's what we really want. And it turns out that the United States is not doing that well and turns of health and longevity. They're way down the list. Canada's a little bit better at 19th, but countries like Switzerland are at a much higher level and Japan. And so we find that we've really got a lot to learn in North America about how to do well-planned diets. And one of the things that was new for me 25 years ago, I'd have been saying vegan is the way to go. Now I'm saying well-planned vegan is the way to go. And the research keeps coming out thick and fast, so we're keeping up with it and going, hey, this will really help.

Steve

You've both spent decades studying nutrition, and you're now part of the population this book was written for. Has getting older changed the way you personally eat, exercise, or think about health?

Brenda Davis

I think it has for both of us, but I can say for myself that I definitely eat differently than I did 20 or 30 years ago. I'm really physically active, but even with the physical activity, I just don't need as many calories. as I used to. So I have less room for discretionary calories or foods with lots of calories and not very many nutrients. And the other thing that I've done, and I know Vesanto, you'll say you've done this too, is we've shifted the foods we really focus on. I've shifted a little bit away from the concentrated carbohydrates like grains and starchy vegetables. I have smaller portions and I have bigger portions of the protein rich foods like tofu and beans and lentils, because I'm more conscious of preserving my muscle mass, which is so important as we get older. And then I'm thinking more about brain health as well, because, you know, when we think about neurological diseases, those are probably the scariest of all for many of us. So Vesanto and I have both tested our omega-3 status and we take, you know, we take micro LG or LG-based omega-3s, I've actually started adding some creatine in as well, just a small amount, but there's some evidence for muscles, but there's also some evidence for brain function. And then we make sure we're covered for things like B12, vitamin D, iodine. So very conscious of those things. But I would say the foundation of our diets hasn't changed. We're both vegan, entirely plant-based. both have for many years eaten whole food plant-based diets. So we're very conscious of the majority of our calories coming from whole foods. But what's changed is just being a little more intentional. So yeah, the calories that we eat have to work a little harder than they used to.

Vesanto Melina

I'm the same as what Brenda said. One of the watchers, Judy, just said about how much creatine do we need. And we do not know exactly. So I use a little spoonful. It's kind of like probably half a teaspoon. And I've been doing that every day for ages. And one of the things that's happened for me is that my health has even got a bit better. In fact, on last Wednesday, I got kicked out of a fitness class for being too fit.

Brenda Davis

Love it.

Vesanto Melina

I do 5 seniors classes a week and I had added on one about balance and walking for seniors. And when I got there, the person who knows me that was running it, she said, you can't come here, you're too fit. You go back to the, get your money back. Oh, isn't that great?

Brenda Davis

Don't you love that?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. And then I can do a two-minute plank now and I couldn't have before, but I, you know, I just built up to it gradually. And I wanted to say to the people that are watching and listening that if you're, you need to be 100% plant-based right off the bat. Like don't feel bad if you're, you know, somewhere moving in that direction or thinking about it or have diet that's pretty close and rest of your life fits in not that way because we really welcome you in all these.

Brenda Davis

Yeah, it's about direction, not perfection. So, you know, we all, if we're moving in the right direction, we're taking even little baby steps. Those are worth celebrating. And I just want to touch on the creatine thing of how much. Most experts are recommending three to five grams a day. And just so people know, we make about a gram a day. Everybody makes that in their bodies. Omnivores will eat another gram. So they're getting about two grams a day between what they make and what they eat. Whereas people on entirely plant-based diets are just making that gram. And so our blood levels tend to be a little lower, even though we're able to maintain brain creatine levels to about the same amount. But still, our blood levels are lower, which may impact our sort of muscle protein synthesis and physical activity. So if you even just take one gram a day, you're getting to kind of where the average omnivore is. If you take three to five, that's what's generally recommended for muscle maintenance and physical activity and such. I think If you're a smaller person, you'd be at the lower end of that. If you're a bigger person, at the higher end of that. And so I have to admit, I probably just take a gram or two, but I think three to five is very reasonable.

Vesanto Melina

I take about two thirds of a teaspoon and that's around the three, yeah. We just had one listener ask about natto kinase, if we like that. And I'll tell you, I've got some natto in the fridge. And I haven't had the courage to try it yet. So not such an expert on Natalie.

Brenda Davis

Natalie, I think it's kind of like Vegemite. I think it's one of those tastes that if you grew up on it, you love it. And if you didn't, it can be pretty repulsive. So it's just, you know, fermented foods can have strange smells and tastes and so it's different. And if you're not used to it, you may not like it. And it's even the Have you tried, Brenda? Once. That should tell you something.

Steve

Let me ask you this next question. Some people might say, I'm not going to buy your book. It's really not worth it. It's too late. I'm already, I didn't eat good for a long time. I haven't been exercising. I've already gotten some bad reports. So Now, what people who've already reached their 50s and 60s, has much of the damage already been done? What does the science tell us about our ability to change our health trajectory even at a later point in life?

Brenda Davis

I'll start out. I think the science is extremely robust to say that it is never too late to dramatically shift our health trajectory. We can't change our genes. We can't change our age. We can't change all of the things we did in the past, but we can certainly influence what happens as we move forward in a major way. So one of my favorite examples is that you might be familiar with a very, very important study called the Diabetes Prevention Program Study. And they showed that lifestyle changes, and that wasn't going vegan or anything like that, it was very modest lifestyle changes, could actually reduce the development of diabetes by 58% overall. But among people who were 60 or older, it actually reduced the risk by 71%. And I love that finding because it proves that older people do respond to lifestyle change and quite profoundly. And I can remember when I first started working in the Marshall Islands on the diabetes intervention trial there, not only did I see people improve their health, but I was just stunned to see how rapidly that happened. So here are people that have been, have had diabetes for 20 years or more, and they didn't believe their lifestyle or diet had anything to do with their disease. But within a week, they're absolutely blown away by, their blood glucose levels dropping by 50 or 75 milligrams per deciliter by, their, They're regular now. They've got better energy. Their brain fog is gone within days. They have less pain in their joints. They can walk across the room without agony in a week or two. It's unbelievable. And so it's, I think, not surprisingly intensive lifestyle changes. profoundly impact disease. And the more intensive it is, the more profound the impact is. And it's not even just diabetes, it's heart disease, it's GI disorders, kidney disease, even several types of cancer and cataracts. And there are just so many things. And many of the lifestyle factors that protect the heart and metabolic health also support brain health. So we all also know that it can reduce our risk of cognitive decline. So I think that's all, you know, really, really important. So regardless of our age, it's never too late to make positive changes and we can reclaim our health that, you know, for most people, so.

Steve

Thank you. Vesanto, how do our nutritional needs change as we age and what deserves particular attention after age 50? And are there certain nutrients that may be difficult to get from food alone and when might supplements be appropriate?

Vesanto Melina

Oh, good. This is what George is also asking with one of our listeners. And what happens when we get older is that we don't need as many calories. Often we're less active, we don't burn as much, and we do need more of quite a few different nutrients. And so these can be achieved by shifting our diet a bit and also by adding supplements. So one of the big ones, what we call this is needing more nutrient density, like more nutrients per calories. So one of the things is protein. Like we don't build our muscle as efficiently when we're older or reclaim our bone. Like there's always bone metabolism going on all the time rebuilding, but we're less efficient at these rebuilds when we get older and we don't absorb as well for a number of the nutrients. So we have to up our protein recommended intake. Now North American recommendations do not show that we need an increase when we're over 50, 60, whatever. But the Scandinavian countries I think are a bit ahead in changing the recommended intake. So they've got an increase by the time you're a senior. And then some countries like Australia and New Zealand, there's also increases recommended. And so those of us who are working in these areas suggest that it's better to go from the 0.8 grams per kilogram healthy body weight, which is recommended right now, to up to 1 to 1.2 grams per kilogram. So that's like a 25 to 50% increase in protein. And when we say healthy body weight, if you've got a lot of extra fat, you don't need the protein based on it for those fat cells so much. So it's your healthy body weight. And if you're way underweight, it should be increased. And that's per kilogram, not per pound. Some of the recommendations I see look like they're per pound and they're way high, not in the plant-based world, but just in the kind of bodybuilding world. So it usually works out to one to one And then if you've got some kind of illness, you need more protein than that. If you've got troubles that would require more. Now some other nutrients that are needed are. vitamin B12 and B6 for everybody after 50. And the interesting thing about B12 is that it's recommended for everyone, not just those on plant-based diets. And it's because about a third of us don't absorb as well, and we never know who that is, you know, typically. And the amounts for bills on plant-based diets, we all should be taking B12. And so the amounts are about 500 to 1000 micrograms a day for B12. Now B6 is a different one that nobody really knows about very much, but it's in all the different food groups. Some that are interesting are in bananas and avocados, it's in lots of different vegetables, it's in whole grains, it's in seeds, and so it's in the different food groups. And it's involved in a lot of enzyme reactions, including protein metabolism. It's kind of a workhorse vitamin and it's involved in neurotransmitter and hemoglobin production and homocysteine regulation. That's a toxic substance that can build up. So we want a bit more B6. And that just means eat more of all these good, healthy foods. Of course, it's not in the refined things like sugar and white flour. And then vitamin D and calcium, we need those for our bones. And vitamin D increases as we get older as well for everybody over 70. But it's good to get a lab test and check. whether you're at the right level. I got one and found out that I was a low vitamin D absorber. I had to go way up there for a while to get my serum vitamin D to the right level. And so these are all things that we're learning. The official recommended intakes are not high like that. And another one is calcium that increases for women after 50 and men after 70. And we get lots of those from like the low oxalate greens, the kale, the broccoli, Napa cabbage, collard greens, calcium set tofu, fortified non-dairy milks, almonds. I have a lemon tahini dressing every day. Tahini's got calcium. So, but I find with my clients, they typically are not getting, they get about maybe 600 milligrams of calcium, not the 1200 that's required for a senior. It's 1000 for most adults before being senior and goes up to 1200. So these are all places that you could do a bit of a boost from supplements from some of them. And the other one is the essential fats. And if you look at our books from like decades ago, you'll see that we recommended hemp seed, flax seed, I bet everybody here listening can know these, chia and walnuts, and you get a bit in leafy greens. So this is the omega-3 fatty acids. But we're finding that even though our body could change those to the long chain forms, DHA and EPA, It isn't very efficient at doing that for anybody. Like it just isn't happening very much. And this is why people eat fish. But it turns out the fish are not the ideal source anymore. The farmed fish apparently are not being fed very much of the DHA and the fish in the wild have all kinds of toxic minerals and toxic chemicals in them. So we can bypass the fish because fish don't eat even make DHA and EPA. They get it from microalgae. So what we found is that you can just take a microalgae-based vegan supplement of DHA and EPA and get your serum omega-3s just to the right level. And this is again, a very lively area of research. Brenda, do you want to add anything?

Brenda Davis

The only thing I want to add is because we're talking a lot to people from the United States, that we say one to 1.2 grams per kilogram body weight, that's about a half a gram per pound. And so it makes it really easy. If you weigh 120 pounds, it's 60 grams. It's a half a gram per pound would equal 1.1 grams per kilogram. So right in the middle of that one to 1.2. So that's kind of just an easy reference for people.

Vesanto Melina

And George is asking about the calcium. And I find that I use a supplement and I do it, I have one that's about 600 milligrams, but I take, I have half of it in the morning and half later on because our absorption facility won't absorb a very big amount. So it's better to have it two times in the day. So I either take one that's 300 milligrams or bite a 600 and a half and have it part early, part late. But I find when I have clients, a lot are low in calcium. Now, Brenda has a different take on that one because she uses a lot of fortified non-dairy milks, right, Brenda?

Brenda Davis

Yeah, so my preference is I think I get about 800 milligrams of calcium just my general diet, but I add in about a cup and a half of non-dairy milk. So at my breakfast and in making foods and that gets me to 1200. So I feel like I'm doing okay in that regard.

Steve

Okay. I want to ask you a question about why preserving muscle is so critical as we age and what role do protein and resistance exercise play and can plant proteins do the job? But I also want to know, If we don't fully get everything from this webinar, does the book cover all of these topics? Does it cover it in detail? Will we be able to reference the book to get all this information?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, we did reference this. We've got the backup research and we were very detailed about all the different nutrients and the different options for how to get your omega-3s, your calcium and so on. And what was the other part of what you said?

Steve

Why is preserving muscle so critical as we age and what role do protein and resistance exercise play and can plant proteins do the job?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, well, we definitely need to keep our muscles so that we, if we need to get up out of a chair, if we need to walk somewhere to the mailbox, if we wanna play with our grandchildren, we need those muscles. And when we start losing that muscle strength is when we become disabled, even bedridden. I've seen just tragedies, people going through that. And so it is really important. And we're finding research that shows that you can increase your protein. That's really important. And you got to do exercise as well, like resistance exercise. And they show that the plant protein is just as good as animal protein. And of course, with the plant protein, you don't get the TMAO effect that's synced with heart disease. You don't get new 5G that's synced with cancer. Those things come from the animal products, from the meat. But if you avoid those, you have a much better advantage and you've got protein that's just as good. Every amino acid, in fact, comes from, say in beef, it comes from the plants the cow ate. So we get those amino acids just more directly when we go to plant foods and we get plenty. Brenda.

Brenda Davis

Yeah, I mean, I want to add just a little bit about the study that Vesanto had mentioned. So there are few studies out of Europe that are really fascinating about this. And, you know, one study from 2020 looked at, you know, sarcopenia risk scores in people eating various amounts of protein. And what they found is people eating under a gram per kilogram had an increased risk of sarcopenia. People eating at least a gram had a lower risk, the lowest risk was in those eating more than 1.2 grams. But what I thought was really interesting about this study is they looked at protein source and they said, well, does the protein source matter? And I think most people would assume that, well, high quality protein from meat would be an advantage. But in fact, they found that plant protein intake was associated with a lower sarcopenia risk score across all levels of protein intake. And people that were getting their protein from plants had faster walking speed, better physical performance. So all of those things. And then, you know, Vesanto mentioned the study from the Netherlands, which is really important. One of the things that's important to know is in this study, they actually, they did a 10 day controlled diet with a diverse, you know, supply of plant proteins followed by a 10-day omnivorous diet to see how protein muscle synthesis was with plant proteins versus animal proteins. The animal with 60% of protein came from animal sources. But the important thing is they were matched for calories and protein. So the people eating the vegan diet, when they were eating a vegan diet, they were getting exactly the same amount of protein as people eating an omnivorous diet. And what happened is there was no difference in muscle protein synthesis, whether the protein came from plant or animal. But the same group just released a study like a week ago, I think it was very, very recent, where it was three arms to the study. They had healthy adults who ate an omnivorous diet, it was self-selected, healthy adults who ate a vegan diet, which was self-selected, and healthy adults that ate a vegan diet plus did resistance exercise training. And what they found was people eating the vegan diet, whether they were resistance training or not, ate around 20 to 28 fewer grams of protein than the omnivores. And the people just eating, not doing the exercise, but eating the vegan diet had reduced muscle protein synthesis. They were eating less protein and it mattered. But people that were eating less protein plus doing the resistance training, they had no difference. synthesis compared to the omnivores. So, you know, the bottom line is we want to be eating enough protein, but resistance exercise helps to compensate if we're not quite getting enough protein to help to preserve muscle mass. So, you know, and there are a number of studies. There was a study out of Taiwan as well that found people eating 17% of calories from protein had, you know, way less sarcopenia than people eating 13% Those at 13% had triple the risk of sarcopenia. But if their protein came from plants, they had over double, it was 2.3 times higher odds of low muscle mass if the protein came from animal products versus plant products. So they were at an advantage with plants as well. So I think it blows out of the water many of the beliefs about the benefits of animal protein. A lot of people wonder, well, why would that be? Well, like Vasanta said, you don't have a lot of the inflammatory compounds in plant foods. You don't have the saturated fat. But what you do have in that package, in that protein package is fiber, phytochemicals, antioxidants. you've got all of these things that reduce inflammation, oxidative stress, that promote a healthy gut microbiome instead of dysbiosis. So all of those things matter.

Vesanto Melina

Danara just sent a question about, is it okay to just eat sprouts or do you need beans? And the legumes are really, really helpful. Now, if somebody has an allergy, you don't have to include those. But just thinking about sprouts, you put your little few say small legumes or whole lentils into a jar and you put this little scrinch at the bottom and then it fills up the whole jar when it's sprouted. You don't get that much protein from that. And we've worked at the Raw Chef School, Living Light, and did several books on raw foods. And we found it was really tricky to get the protein up to the higher level with just raw foods. You could do it but it was tricky. Our becoming raw has a lot about that. But the legumes are tremendously helpful to have like three times a day. But if you can't eat legumes, there's definitely ways to do it with the other foods. And there's 20 kinds of legumes that we commonly consume. Yeah.

Steve

So one of the things about getting older, obviously everyone's concerned about heart disease and cancer and diabetes, but one of the things that just seems really intense is cognitive health. A lot of us understand that as people get much older, it's really, really common. Do you have something to say about, can this be avoided or is this just what automatically happens once you're in your late 80s? Or what can you tell us about the optimal way to maintain cognitive health? And while we're talking about cognitive health, you could also talk about, consider Parkinson's as part of that also.

Brenda Davis

Well, first of all, I wanna go back to the last question because I think it's important for people to know that a cup of lentil sprouts will have about 7 grams of protein. A cup of cooked lentils will have about 17. If you need 60 grams of protein in a day, it can be really challenging. just from sprouts, even if it's legumes sprout. And most legumes you can't eat just sprouted. They contain hemagglutinins, which are dangerous. So the only legumes you can sprout and safely eat are things like mung beans and lentils. So it just makes it a lot more challenging. Certainly you can add a lot of hemp seeds and pumpkin seeds and things like that. I think it's possible, but it is, you know, if you're doing a largely raw diet, adding in, you know, some cooked legumes, like a lentil soup to the mix, I think is a really good idea, especially as we get older. And then on to the cognitive function question. You know, I think I love the saying our genes are not our destiny. You know, there's nothing we can do to guarantee that we'll never have significant cognitive decline, but nutrition and lifestyle very significantly modifies our risk. And I think one of the studies that I think was most encouraging was the 2024 Lancet Commission. You know, they estimated almost 50% of dementia cases could be prevented or delayed at least by addressing modifiable risk factors. And diet appears to be, you know, probably the most important part of the picture. So some of the strongest research we have come from Mediterranean style diets, the mind diet, which is like Mediterranean plus DASH diet. And these are diets that put a lot of emphasis on plant foods that are associated with brain health, things like, you know, green leafy vegetables and other colorful vegetables and berries and whole grains and beans and nuts and seeds and unsaturated instead of saturated fats. And so we see people that adhere to those types of largely plant-based diets tend to have better cognitive outcomes over the long term. And so, these diets aren't exotic. They're not anything that is that difficult to do. They're very middle of the road diets and they do tend to be beneficial. Now, I think we should say, and I think it's important to acknowledge that even though we've got a number of studies suggesting that there may be reduced dementia in vegetarians like the Taiwanese Health Study, and even one of the old 1993 Adventist Health Studies, the new Adventist Health Study was not quite as, I guess, Encouraging. Encouraging, that's the word. It wasn't quite as encouraging. And so what they found is that we have people eating plant-based have dramatically reduced risk of many of the chronic diseases, lifestyle induced diseases like heart disease and diabetes and kidney disease and all of hypertension and all of those things. But that for neuro neurological diseases, there was actually an increased risk. And that was really concerning. And even though the research wasn't statistically, the findings weren't statistically significant, it was still very concerning. So I actually spoke to the senior researcher on that study and he was really very concerned. So I think there are a lot of things that plant-based diets do well in terms of brain health. They lower systemic inflammation. They reduce oxidative stress. They support a healthier gut microbiome. They reduce our risk of obesity. They reduce cardiometabolic risk factors. They lower TMAO levels, all of those kinds of things. But on the other hand, we have a little greater risk for insufficient B12, vitamin D, iodine, choline, zinc, and long chain omega-3s. And so if we wanna design a diet to maximize cognitive function, we wanna think about where those things are coming from. That's why Vesanto and I both take an EPA DHA microalgae vegan supplement. We make sure we get enough B12. We make sure our vitamin D status is good. We make sure there's a source of iodine in our diet and that we've got good sources of choline and zinc as well. And so it's absolutely doable. are a lot of advantages with plant-based diets, but there was the concern. What we saw is actually we saw a little bit of a greater risk of dementia at age 65 and at age 85 for plant-based eaters. And we saw, this was really interesting. There was actually a lower risk of Parkinson's in the 65 year olds. It was about 30% lower, but there was a higher risk. It was 37% higher by age 85. And that was concerning when I talked to Doug, you know, to the, to the lead researcher. It was Dr. Gary Fraser. He suggested that he thought that the biggest or the most logical explanations for the higher risk would be omega-3 fatty acids, B12 and vitamin D. And so that's exactly where we're at as well. But the good news is that's all fixable. We can make sure we get enough of those things.

Steve

For someone who's listening and thinking that the plant-based diet sounds wonderful, but changing the way that we've been eating for 60, 70 years feels overwhelming, where would you encourage them to begin?

Vesanto Melina

Well, one of the things I want to ask John to bring up the food guide, if he'd do that. And so some of the things that we can do, well, just while I'm talking, while John does that, is that they can look at websites when they wanna go to a restaurant, they can look at happycow.net. And that one is a good one for restaurants. Now back to the food guide, the things that we've been talking about here getting the whole pattern. And so some of the myths that have happened, for example, you know that you need to get meat to get all the amino acids. Well, those were studies that were done decades ago, when we said that some plant foods were incomplete. They were feeding rats like one food at a time, just crazy stuff. And, you know, it isn't how humans eat. We need this whole And every plant food has all the amino acids, but they combine with all their different nutrients together. And so if we're looking at this food guide, we see that this is slightly different from the food guide for younger people because we actually decrease the number of grain servings. If people are very, very active, they can have more grains, but we brought it from three servings down to two as a general guide. And of course, people adjust this. The vegetables, we want lots of them, the fruits, three servings. and legumes, three servings. So that's three times a day. And it could be a snacks once. And we can have some more practical things later on if we talk about a few of our recipes. The nuts and seeds are important. The grains are important. So we've given very specifics throughout this book for these and other supplement ideas. The supplements are in the add-ons, the DHA and EPA, the B12, the iodine that's in iodized salt, but it's not in the salts and vitamin D. So this can really help people to have that guidance. I know some people just keep it on their fridge until they get the routine down. And another thing that people can do is to look online for local resources. Like in Vancouver, for example, where I am, they have meatless meetup in different towns. If you look for plant-based groups or vegan groups or vegetarian in groups. It helps to find healthy eating buddies and you needn't be perfect like following this guide all at once. You can close it down now, John. Thank you. So these are some things that can really, really help with our transition. And I find a lot of times like little cooking classes that are local because you can try out a recipe and see if you like it or not. Hey, I like that. And then you'll go and buy all the ingredients for it and be comfortable with doing that. But you've got to shift a number of things like how your kitchen works. We've got a chapter, cooking is your superpower, how to make it simple. So those are good things for people who are just dipping their toe in or wanting to perfect their plant-based diet they've been on for a while.

Steve

Which chronic diseases associated with aging are most responsive to diet and lifestyle And where is the evidence particularly compelling?

Brenda Davis

Well, I'll take that one. The evidence I think is most compelling for cardiovascular disease and type two diabetes, but it's also pretty good for kidney disease, hypertension, diverticular disease, cataracts, certain cancers, especially hormone related cancers and other cancers of the GI tract. or cancers and cancers of the GI tract, I should say. And, these life, these. sort of lifestyle-induced conditions, which they largely are, very responsive to changes in lifestyle. And with cardiovascular disease, improvements in diet, physical activity, not smoking, and eating less salt, and all of those things can make a big impact. But I think some of the strongest evidence we have is actually for type 2 diabetes. And so you can, prevent diabetes, you can drive diabetes into remission in many cases by changing the diet. And so and I think the most exciting part of this. approach is that you don't need a different lifestyle prescription for every disease or a different diet prescription for every disease. It's the same basic pattern, a nutrient dense, predominantly whole food plant-based diet, physical activity, maintaining muscle mass, getting enough sleep, not smoking, having strong social connections, all of those things influence risk in a huge way. So when we make these kinds of changes, we're not just treating one disease at the time. We're changing sort of the milieu in which these diseases develop and progress.

Steve

After decades as dieticians, what do you understand about nutrition today that you wish you had understood when you first entered the profession?

Vesanto Melina

Well, it's changed so much. I started teaching nutrition at university in 1965. Most of the listeners weren't even alive then. Maybe their mother wasn't either. And boy has it changed. It's changed tremendously over the years. And it's been quite fascinating. Like I could stay in this field and be interested the whole time. So the nutrition that I'm doing now had never even heard of the word, no earlier, had never even heard of the word vegan. They didn't know about omega-3 fatty acids. We didn't think about gut health either. We were dieticians. And Will Bosowick said one time when I was, we were both at a convention center speaking, I think, and I asked him, you know, when you're switching to more plant-based, how much beans do you suggest? I'm saying like, just have half a cup of well-cooked beans. He said, start with one chickpea. I mean, he was really exaggerating, but for our gut, we're just learning about that sort of thing. And you got to inch your way gradually towards these new directions. So having had these decades of experience, I've sure learned just practical stuff all along the way. Yeah.

Brenda Davis

Yeah. And you know, for me, I think so much is about how things are interconnected. And, you know, food is so much more than the sum of its parts. A bean isn't just protein, iron and zinc and fiber. It's such a complex package of nutrients, phytochemicals, different types of fibers, plant sterols, and all of that interacts with our gut microbiome because they're, you know, that's what feeds the gut microbiome. And so it's just, you know, food is so extraordinarily powerful. But we just have to recognize that it's not single nutrients, it's the whole package and how they all work in synergy. And so I think that's one of the big things. We're concerned about nutrients, but we're even more concerned about dietary patterns.

Vesanto Melina

Steve, we've got some recipe pictures that John has.

Steve

Okay, please share those.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. So there are a few favorites that we've got, but we were very fortunate to have recipe testers in our communities locally and in the US and in Canada. And they wouldn't let a recipe go into our book unless it got five stars. So here's some of Brenda's favorites. Okay. Brenda, are you on there? Oh, put her on.

Brenda Davis

Yes.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, good. Okay. Your breakfast, huh?

Brenda Davis

Yeah, so this isn't my standard breakfast, but it is the simplest one. And I always do this when I'm traveling or camping or something like that. And it's like an overnight oats recipe. And I like to make a big, huge package with an old-fashioned oats, chia seeds, hemp seeds, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, and then just add, you know, you add your fortified soy milk, let it sit overnight, and then you can put all your goodies, your fruit, fresh fruits on top. Now my regular breakfast, I like to use intact grains because they take the body a lot longer to digest and absorb. So they hold you, they keep you satiated for longer, and they tend to be very high in fiber. and that, you know, just the structure or the package that fibers in is really beneficial. So that right now I've got a mixture of camel berries, barley and lentils, that is the base of my breakfast bowl. And then I add in a little plant based yogurt or chia pudding for something creamy, and then all of the fruits and my dehydrated granola and seed mix on top. So you can do a really wonderful plant-based breakfast. So that's all I'll say about that.

Vesanto Melina

The next one. This is a rainbow. Yeah, keep with quinoa.

Brenda Davis

That's one of my favorites. Every lunch I have a big full meal salad, which is a base of greens, and then I'll make other things to go with it. One of the things I love to make is a sort of kimbo rainbow salad, which is, you know, a quinoa and then just try to reflect every color of the rainbow in the vegetable combination. And I love it to be almost tabbouleh like in that it's got a lot of parsley and lemon and garlic. And so this is it's a really lovely salad. It can be a full meal salad. You can add chickpeas or this one has but you can add some sort of legume to make it a real full meal salad.

Vesanto Melina

Okay, next one, cookies I think coming up.

Brenda Davis

You know, this again, I pride myself. in making really yummy treats that people would be shocked to have no concentrated sugars often, sometimes a little bit of maple syrup or molasses or no concentrated oils. So I'll just use nut butters for the fat and I'll mainly use dates for the sweetener. And you can certainly do a lot with that. And so these are three of the cookies in the book that are pretty fun to do.

Vesanto Melina

Yum. And the next one. So this is a bit more back to breakfast. At our house, my husband loves to make French toast and it's a cashew based sauce. And then we have blueberries on or with it. And I like to have a smoothie. Typically mine's a blueberry smoothie, but there are raspberries and we can put some tofu or some protein powder to boost it. So breakfast can be pretty quick at our house and very attractive. Okay, the next one is this is just my absolute favorite for protein and this is marinated tofu cubes and I put them in the air fryer. And so they're always soaking in my fridge. They've got a little bit of tamari, some ginger, which I love, some garlic and some rice vinegar. And they're just a firm tofu is just sitting there all the time. I can stick it in the air fryer and in 11 minutes it's ready. So that's a quick thing. And that's been one of my really real helps. And I tell you, I love potato chips, but I can't keep them in the house because I'd eat them. But these are kind of like having potato chips for a snack. So if you want to boost your protein. Now, Brenda has a different way of preparing things like that.

Brenda Davis

Yeah, because I don't actually have an air fryer. So I do something very similar to Vesanto with the tofu, but I just do it in my convection oven, which is kind of like an air fryer actually. But it does it beautifully as well. So you don't have to have an air fryer to make these tofu cubes. And my fridge is never without them. into my salad at lunch. They go into a stir fry and they're just like Vesanto said, the best snack. They're so good.

Vesanto Melina

And somebody just asked, how do you, the tofu is wet. What do you do? Well, I have the slotted spoon and so I just lift it out of the marinade and then I can keep the marinade and use it for another batch of tofu. It's usually a bit less salty. And the last slide I think we've got here for food is this is chocolate pudding. And it has quite an amazing number of ingredients, two, two ingredients. It's just got either soft or silken tofu and a chocolate bar, dark chocolate. It's a vegan chocolate bar. And what we do is either put it, you can put it in a double boiler, the chocolate, or you can put it warm it some other way like in a air in.

Brenda Davis

The microwave even.

Vesanto Melina

A microwave in a glass bowl and then you just mix it up and this has actually helped several people that I know that are trying to gain weight. One had a kind of difficult situation in her family with dementia, her appetite went way, way down. And this helped her really turn that around. Within a week, she came to me and said, Whoa, I'm on an upward bound for my weight. I'm starting to regain. And she really likes it. Another person had oral cancer. And it really helped him because just eating was quite a challenge and he really found the smoothness of this. Sometimes put peanut butter in as well or some of the plant-based yogurts. Silk has a plant-based kind of yogurt that can be added. So anyway, this has really helped some people that needed the protein from the tofu and the smoothness to regain some weight. That's the end about the pictures. Thank you very much, John.

Steve

Great. Two questions in the chat worth answering, one about salt and sodium. How does this fit into your plan? And 2, someone wrote a good question. They said, Dr. Grecher recommends cooking nuts, seeds and tofu at low heats due to the formation of AGEs, advanced glycation end products. So what is your thought about just cooking in general, beans, grains and everything else because of AGEs? And what is your thought on salt?

Vesanto Melina

Want to do that, Brenda?

Brenda Davis

Sure. So first, the first question is about salt. And what I would say is, a lot of the ex, oh, shoot. just fell. A lot of the experts are suggesting no added salt at all. I think that's really hard for people, we have to remember probably 70 to 77% of sodium in the diet tends to come from processed foods. So the you know that maybe 25 30% is coming from what you might add in cooking or at the table. And generally, when that's where your sodium is coming from, you're not exceeding, you know, the recommended intake. So the upper amount that's generally recommended is about 23 or 2400 milligrams a day. But for people that have hypertension, people who are black, people who are at higher risk, we reduce it to 1,500. I think You know, for seniors, that's a reasonable place to be is having a lid of about 1500. Of course, if you've got hypertension, you might wanna keep it a little lower. I don't, to be honest, I don't think you need to eliminate it completely. In fact, to me, it's so important to enjoy your food and to be able to share it and all of that. And I think a little tiny bit of salt can help increase the palatability of foods tremendously. So I'm not as rigid about that, but I do think that most North Americans eat too much. 35, 3700 milligrams a day is way too much. So we don't want to be doing that. Yes, absolutely.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, the kind to get for salt is iodized salt. Cheap, $2 a box or $1 or something. And that has really helped people with thyroid and those issues because it has iodine in it. And not all salt in the US is iodized. And there's lots of these fancy salts, Himalayan salt, pink salt that are not iodized, kosher salt. And also things like tamari and soy sauce are not iodized. So it's a good place and you just need about 3/8 of a teaspoon or a quarter teaspoon a day to get the amount of iodine. So that's one option. you over the limit. Now all the salt that's added to things like peanut butter and every sauce you can find and that salt is not iodized, what's used commercially. So you can, but we're talking a lot of whole food plant-based, so adding a bit of salt won't be a problem there.

Brenda Davis

Yeah, and I just want to add that just be aware that salt is one of our bigger sources of microplastics. And Himalayan sea salt was pretty high on that list, higher than most other salts as well. Now for people that don't want to use iodized salt, And the other big source of iodine is seaweed, but you need to have some idea of how concentrated the iodine is. So kelp powder, just a 16th of a teaspoon gives you your sort of 150 micrograms. And it's not absolutely consistent between different kelps, but generally you're in that neighborhood. So just a tiny sprinkle on your salad is a is a way to get it if you don't want to use iodized salt. So just a thought there.

Vesanto Melina

Was one more part to your question, Steve.

Steve

Oh, right. The AGEs from cooked food, from cooked beans, grains, nuts, seeds, tofu.

Brenda Davis

Yeah, and so it's not even just AGEs. Advanced glycation end products are important, but we also have to think about acrylamide and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and heterocyclic amines and these kinds of compounds. Of course, heterocyclic amines are just in animal products, so we don't have to worry about those on a plant-based diet. But when we cook foods at high temperatures, we produce products of oxidation that can be damaging to human health, can increase cancer risk, for example. And so we want to minimize those. And so, you know, when it comes to cooking, if you're cooking using moist cooking methods like steaming, boiling, water sauteing, you don't produce hardly any products of oxidation because you have to hit a certain temperature to do that. So dry heat produces many more of these compounds and especially dry heat with oil produces more of these compounds than moist cooking. You don't moist cooking, so boiling beans is not an issue. Now on the other hand, roasting nuts and seeds can be. So especially if you roast them to a dark color. So, if you really want to maximize, or minimize the amount of these compounds that get into your foods, you could soak and dehydrate your nuts and seeds. And that gives you a sort of a similar crunchy, a lovely flavor. And so that's a really, I think, a really good option for people trying to minimize. And of course, it's reasonable to want to minimize those things. Yes. And the other thing is, is baking at, you know, under, you know, somebody put up a posting under 250 polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are, I think, under 325. So even using a lower temperature instead of cooking at 400, you're cooking at, you know, even 250, 275, those would be reasonable options as well.

Steve

Okay. If listeners remember just one message from Plant Powered Seniors, what would you want it to be, and how do we go about buying this book?

Brenda Davis

Vesanto, do you wanna start?

Vesanto Melina

Okay. Oh gosh, one thing. Well, yeah, do get our book. It's on plantpoweredseniors.com, but there's a dash between plant and powered, so plant-powered, And yeah, do have a look because even if there were some other questions that came up, we covered a lot in this book, lots of different areas. And what we want is for you to be tremendous success and have a very, very enjoyable senior years as you move into them and just be really happy, strong, fit and well nourished.

Brenda Davis

Yeah, and I, you know, for me, the one message is it is never ever too late to reclaim or regain our health and small positive choices matter, direction matters more than perfection. So small changes over time can profoundly influence your health trajectory over the long-term. So we want to add, you know, we want to preserve strength, vitality, independence, And we want to keep doing what we love to do with the people we love to do it. And so I think that's really an important message.