Chef AJ

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to today's Chef AJ Live. Thank you so much for being here. As you know, ever since the sheltering in place started, I've decided to go live one or more times a day just to introduce you to some really interesting guests and create a sense of community and connection and give us something to do to take our mind off the virus for an hour or two a day. So today I have the privilege of speaking to a registered dietitian named Vasant She was a guest on the Truth About Weight Loss Summit this year, and she was absolutely fabulous, and I just knew I wanted to talk to her some more. She co-authored a wonderful cookbook along with Brenda Davis, who I'm going to be speaking to next week. It's called the KICK Diabetes Cookbook, and I've already earmarked the first recipe I'm going to make. Isn't that beautiful? This is called Cauliflower and Basmati Rice Salad. So please welcome Vesanto Melina. How you doing?

Vesanto Melina

Really well, wonderfully well.

Chef AJ

You're all the way up in Canada, That's right, in Vancouver.

Vesanto Melina

It's just gorgeous here and we're having fun gardening.

Chef AJ

Wow. Well, I love to talk about your book, but you know so much about diabetes. And since we're both in North America, can you talk about what the situation in North America is regarding the incidence of diabetes?

Vesanto Melina

It's pretty amazing how it's changed over the last century or so, because it used to be a relatively rare condition. And as it turns out now, one American in three or more than that has either diabetes or pre-diabetes. And we're moving up towards one in two. And it's the same in the United States, and it's almost to that extent in Canada. So, it's a pretty, pretty difficult situation. And pre-diabetes is a situation where your blood sugar isn't as high, like your insulin isn't entirely blocking entry to the cells, but there's insulin resistance typically. And about 88 million Americans have pre-diabetes. So, it's a very widely prevalent situation. Also, people that have it have a higher risk of coronavirus, of developing serious illness. So, it's pretty, pretty devastating situation. And a lot of people have pre-diabetes. Apparently about 80% of those that do, then do not know that they have it. So only one in five with pre-diabetes typically knows they have it from the lab tests that show that your blood sugars are somewhat high, but not quite as high as diabetes. And I was actually interested because diabetes runs in my family. My grandfather had it. He ended up getting the complications. In my family, we had a lot of challenges with blood sugar problems, alcoholism, diabetes, they were all kind of related to pancreas function. So, I got quite interested in it.

Chef AJ

What exactly is insulin resistance? And does everyone that's insulin resistant eventually become diabetic if they don't?

Vesanto Melina

No, and actually, even if you did become type 2 diabetic, which can be turned around. So, insulin resistance means that the insulin receptors are not working properly and insulin can't get glucose into cells. But with lifestyle changes, such as the way we're eating and exercise and taking care of ourselves and having lots of protective foods, we can turn that around and get ourselves working properly again. I mentioned earlier to you that my dad was actually working with diabetes. And when I was born, which was 1942, so I'm 78, my dad had been working with Sir Frederick Banting, who had received the Nobel Prize for discovering insulin. They were at the University of Toronto, and that's where we were at that time. And they had isolated insulin and then found that it could be used with diabetics. So, with type one diabetics, they could give them the insulin. So, type one diabetes, you don't have enough insulin, your pancreas just isn't making it. And so, their solution could change a diabetic into having a normal life before it was a death sentence.

Chef AJ

That's fascinating because I remember hearing about Banting. I didn't realize he discovered insulin or won a Nobel Prize.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, he got a Nobel Prize for it. And it was pretty amazing stuff back then. But when I started studying nutrition, which was a long time ago, it was still considered a relatively rare condition. Now, it's really, really common that people have either pre-diabetes or type 2 diabetes. and type 1 diabetes is somewhat less common. But still, the incidence of all of these has been rising.

Chef AJ

Well, it's amazing that, because we have a question here from Linda, if you could comment on type 1. I wonder why type 1 is also rising.

Vesanto Melina

Well, again, it's related to lifestyle choices. So your body just doesn't work as well when you eat a lot of these high sugar foods, high fat foods, and highly processed foods, we have a quite a different situation. So I know people with type one diabetes who have been able to not entirely reduce their insulin intake or eliminate it, but they could bring it way, way down. And they did that just by being healthy, by eating really well, by eating predominantly or entirely plant-based diets.

Chef AJ

That's incredible. And by the way, since you mentioned it, I know you're never supposed to ask a woman her age or her weight, but you mentioned you're 78. I think you look amazing.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, thanks. Yeah. So I'd like to be a really old Vegan. That's my goal. I'm going for, I was thinking 105, but now my goal is 118.

Chef AJ

Just for the fun of it. God, well, let's see. You could be there in a few years if you keep going the way. I think, I don't know if a lot of people realize that you have, not only did you co-author this book with Brenda Davis, but you guys are writing partners in many books.

Vesanto Melina

Oh yes, we have 14 books. 13 books, now in 14 languages. And so we just came out in Russian and in Hebrew, and our books are all plant-based. And our real goal was to help people do this in very, very good health and to enjoy it. Like, you know, this food's got to taste good. Nobody will do it. I wouldn't do it. Well, I probably would, but...

Chef AJ

Right. Linda's saying that insulin saves her life every day, but she's had type 1 diabetes for 55 years, but eating whole plant-based food, she has cut her insulin needs in half over the past 20 years.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, Linda, good for you. And I have found that to be the case with so many different people. And does she get some exercise as well?

Chef AJ

I'm guessing she does. Linda, can you comment if you get some exercise? Okay, this is happening all week with people commenting on my guest's beautiful skin. Gina says, I can't believe she's 78. Her skin looks so nice. So just if we could go off track for a minute, do you have any skincare or beauty care secrets? Because with the sheltering at home, we're all wondering how we can stay beautiful when we can't get to any stores to get our products.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, thank you. No, I keep things really simple to tell you the truth. I, you know, wash with water. I actually don't even use that much soap. I just use water and I get lots of exercise. Before the coronavirus thing, I was typically going for about 10,000 steps a day. Now I'm up to 12 to 15. because we go out for a long walk every day. Always just my husband and I, but we don't go near other people. People are very careful to walk down the middle of the street if you're going by and things like that. But I think getting exercise and doing physical things as well as having a plant-based diet. Now, the other thing about skin, we know that foods like carotenoids, these are in different plant foods, green, orange, yellow, those all help us keep healthy skin.

Chef AJ

That's so true. I think we get beautiful from the inside out.

Vesanto Melina

We do. Yeah.

Chef AJ

Linda, who you asked about exercise, she says she feels much better when she exercised, which really didn't answer the question if she regularly does it, but I'm assuming she does because she's somebody else.

Vesanto Melina

She does her best.

Chef AJ

And plus Robert Cheek is watching, so you have to always say yes if you're exercising because we... We're watching.

Vesanto Melina

Hi, Robert.

Chef AJ

Yeah, he's great. We talked to him a few weeks ago. Rose Marie says that you look beautiful and so let's see. There's a really good question here. The feed goes very fast. But from TS, if you have been diagnosed type 2 diabetic, but change your eating habits and get off meds, are you still insulin sensitive and considered diabetic?

Vesanto Melina

No. Once your blood sugar has reverted to the normal ranges in the lab, under 100 milligrams per deciliter, then you're not, after a year, you're not considered diabetic. Now you could easily jump right back into being diabetic if you quit exercising and also went back to eating highly processed foods and lots of fat and sugar. So you can move in and out of being type 1, type 2 diabetic.

Chef AJ

Nice, very nice. So Betty, who is watching again, she says that her parents weren't diabetic, but that she's been diagnosed with pre-diabetes. She says she's not vegan yet, but she's lots of vegetables and so far has lost 27 pounds. Maybe you can tell Betty and everyone else watching, what do we really need to eat to not only reduce our risk of diabetes, but even reverse it.

Vesanto Melina

What was her name?

Chef AJ

Betty, who's watching?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, so Betty has done really, really well to lose some weight. That is very important. It seems that when we have a lot of fat in our bodies, a lot of fat cells, that has an impact on insulin resistance. And you can turn that around if you lose some weight. So fat has an impact on our hormonal levels, various hormones. So what I'd like to do is to kind of go through the day and show what kinds of foods can really help. I also share something with you, AJ, that like I'm actually not that disciplined when I'm working hard. I would eat things that are too sweet at the end of the day and all that kind of stuff. So I went down to True North and I wanted to get to my optimal BMI. And I went down twice. And the first time I lost 14 pounds and the second time I lost 20 pounds. And I did that by an amazing thing, which was called water fasting. And I found it not a terrible experience. It was actually very pleasant. So I went in November of last year for one month I went and did water fasting for two weeks and then juice and a gradual re-entry into food. And so I found that it was a very, very pleasant way to lose 20 pounds. And then I followed up with that by eating a whole foods plant-based diet that is relatively low in fat, doesn't have added sugars, and is somewhat low in salt. doesn't have added salty foods. So that has allowed me to maintain the weight losses that I got in both cases. Like you can lose that weight and then you go zooming right back if you go back to your old eating. So with our KICK Diabetes Cookbook, what we did was to show people through the day how to eat in a way that has very little No added sugar, has some sweeteners like dates once in a while, has...

Chef AJ

Oh, we're frozen. Okay. Maybe you guys can tell me if you can still see or hear me. Vesanto is frozen right now. You know, a lot of people are using Zoom. I'm actually taking a class, a stand-up comedy class and an improv class with Zoom. And I'll tell you, there's just been so many people using it. You see and hear me. Terrific, Gina. I'll keep talking in the hopes that... There you are. There you go. Don't worry. When you freeze, I'll just kind of do what they say in stand-up comedy. I'll riff, but welcome back.

Vesanto Melina

That's right. Yeah. So many of us are using Zoom and thank goodness for it. Yeah. Okay. So what I'll do now is switch over and talk a little bit about what kinds of foods we need to eat. And also, I just want to mention that some communities are really overrepresented by a lot of processed foods. Like in some of the poorer communities, they hardly have produce stores. What they have is a lot of pre-packaged stuff. And also what's really convenient are convenience stores. Well, those foods, those stores do not have whole foods, plant-based options. So what we're finding is in certain population groups, certain areas, that there are many, many processed foods. And these really aren't the ones we want. We want whole foods, plant-based.

Chef AJ

Absolutely. I call it plant exclusive because I'm not into having it just as the base. I tell everybody I'm plant exclusive. Peace, love, vegan, baby.

Vesanto Melina

Good for you. Okay.

Chef AJ

So talk about, you know, so what we need to eat to reduce our risk of diabetes, whole food, plant-based, minimal to no salt and sugar, definitely no oil. How can this book help people do that? I actually saw there was a recipe for brownies in here.

Vesanto Melina

For what?

Chef AJ

For brownies. They look beautiful.

Vesanto Melina

I know, yeah.

Chef AJ

I mean, the pictures are very beautiful in this. Yeah, they are. Every recipe has a photo, so that's always nice. So you know what it's supposed to look like. Lentil quinoa, three sisters.

Vesanto Melina

Okay, I'll go through some things then.

Chef AJ

Look at this one. Yum. Okay.

Vesanto Melina

Have you?

Chef AJ

I'm going to try the cauliflower of the one that I showed at the beginning. That's what I have the little page. That's the first one I'm going to try. I just got this book a couple of days ago and I'm going to try the cauliflower recipe with the rice.

Vesanto Melina

So this is our Kick Diabetes Cookbook. Is that showing up, AJ?

Chef AJ

Yeah, sure does.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. So We did this book last year, and we actually had a team of testers, because I like to do books that are easy for people who can barely know how to stir a pot, barely cook some simple things, and also for people who are kind of gourmet and they really care you know, what the ingredients are and have a lot of experience. So we had some good recipe testers and we came out with recipes that are relatively simple but also have a number of different variations. And people can see some little clips of Brenda and I on our website, thekipdiabetescookbook.com. And there are clips where we were talking recently, just talking about the different recipes and ingredients. So those are live little short videos, just a few minutes, and they can help people with a lot of things. But if we go through the day, then we'll see how we can, for example, start the day. So how do you like to start your day?

Chef AJ

Savory with vegetables, vegetables and starch, sweet potatoes and broccoli.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, that's good. Yeah. So I have go between having smoothies. The one today had kale in it and you could have some banana, a bit of orange, that kind of thing. And other days, I'll have some kind of grain, typically oats, and not cooked, but muesli. So just add some things, lots of some oats, not too many, like just a quarter cup or something, and add some berries, add some seeds. I usually use hemp seeds or chia to get some omega-3s, which are actually important for diabetes. So that can be a good way to start the day. When I've had breakfast with Brenda Davis, my co-author, she usually has it like a salad bar. So she's got all these different things in little jars, and they're all sitting in the fridge of the freezer and pulls them out. So we have on our counter, typically, a few maybe raisins and almonds that you can just have a few if you need a snack like that, but those are whole foods.

Chef AJ

Just so everyone, because TS asked, I posted the Amazon link to the book. If you'd like to click it, you can check it out. How did you start working with Brenda? I mean, obviously you're both in Canada, but not in the same city and both dietitians. Did you, was it just a match made by your publisher or were you guys friends and wanting to work together?

Vesanto Melina

Well, I was at an event for John Robbins. I had a little booth. And this would be in the late 80s, I think it was, or the early 90s. And I was showing, I was doing cooking classes then because I had lived in India for four years, and I realized that people in India really knew how to do plant-based diets, although many of them are too high in fats and ghee, so they are predisposed to diabetes when they eat that way, but they also know how to make plant foods taste really good. They have a very healthy stream. So when I came back from India, I started helping both the public and also helping registered dietitians. I am a registered dietitian and have been for about 53 years now. But I started helping my professional colleagues learn how to use plant-based foods because we never learned that at school. Amazing. I mean, it's crazy, but we don't learn that kind of thing. It's becoming more and more popular. More dietitians are getting interested in this. But still, we should be learning so much about prevention. And instead, we tend to know a lot about medications and things like that.

Chef AJ

You mentioned oats. I'm just curious, have you ever tasted oat groats?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, and cook sometimes one of the different whole grains and eat that way as the basis. So I do that sometimes too. And I really enjoy having an instant pot because then I can go and do other things and not worry that it's going to boil over and, burn and that sort of thing.

Chef AJ

Exactly. Emily says that your becoming vegan is classic and sends you a heart. And Debbie wants to know if your cookbook can be useful for type 1 diabetics.

Vesanto Melina

It is, but it certainly can't get you entirely off insulin. But it'll really change some of, it'll make your potential a lot better. And it means that you won't go down the road to damage in different parts of your body. as quickly or even move down that road. Like you can really maintain your health a lot better. So this is a value for people with type 1 diabetes. Oh, and by the way, then Brenda and I went together to a conference on nutrition, plant-based nutrition in Washington, DC. And we had fun doing that and then came back and wrote to one publisher, which was Macmillan, and got the contract right away to do a book on becoming vegetarian. And it was actually a vegan book.

Chef AJ

Nice. Robert Cheek has a question for you, Vesanto. Have you seen your industry professionals embracing a plant-based diet? Is it catching on?

Vesanto Melina

It is catching on. I find a lot of young dietitians, I'm probably contacted every week by young dietitians that want to go the same route I did. Now, it unfortunately hasn't really taken over. I mean, we could be having very healthy food in hospitals instead of what we have. So now we have a few hospitals that are going that route, a few of the Adventist hospitals and Dr. Neil Bernard's hospital in Washington, D.C., but it still hasn't really taken over. However, I had a hip replacement about six years ago. I had injured myself doing yoga back in the 80s and had a hip replacement. And I went to the local hospital and asked for vegan food, but I thought my husband would have to bring me stuff all the time. I had really good food. So I was quite happy that more and more even institutions are including vegan meals. So dietitians are providing those. And the same in the corrections facilities. I'm a consultant for the prison system. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah. We have vegan menus that they have in California. Remember, I've talked to different American professionals as well. So it's coming along slow.

Chef AJ

Hey, did you have any more slides to show? Because right now we can't see you. We only can see a slide.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, I'm going to show a few more. So we do have a few things. For example, here's some pancakes. They're a little bit dense pancakes, but you can use things with ground flours and carrot muffins. So we do have a few baked items in our KIP Diabetes Cookbook. Now I'll go on a little bit. One of the things that I think is really important for us to do is to learn how to use beans, peas, and lentils well, because they will really help us maintain our blood sugar level and stabilize our blood sugar when our pancreas isn't that good at maintaining a steady, flow. And what our brain functions on is glucose. Beans, peas, lentils are the ideal delivery of that. So we wanted to get simple stuff. So here were some hummuses that you see. And instead of just having one kind, we made all sorts of different ones that had beets in them or red pepper or different greens. So anyway, we can make it kind of fun to have hummus when you're going to have that all the time.

Chef AJ

Yeah, that looks beautiful, especially the red one.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, isn't that? The pink one, I mean, really tasty. And they don't have a lot of oil in them. So they have, the fats they have are tahini, which is sesame seed butter, but no added olive oil. Olive oil is thought to be a health food, especially by the countries that produce it, but it's actually better to use whole foods for your fats. This is one curry in a hurry. This is probably my favorite because you can make it in about 20 minutes. And it basically has three ingredients, which is water and onions and red lentils. And then you can add a few other things like tomatoes. But red lentils cook in 15 minutes. So this curry in a hurry is just wonderful. And I make a big batch of it and freeze it. Oh, and I use Patak's curry paste. So anyway, it's really, really delicious. This kale salad is good. It has orange ginger dressing. And the one shown here has some little sesame seeds on it. But basically it has, it's kale sliced matchstick thin. And that makes it much more tasty. having a big leaf of kale, people go, what am I supposed to do with this? You know, it's like chewing a piece of rubber. But if you take the stem out and cut it matchstick thin, it works very well. And this is the one that you mentioned.

Chef AJ

Oh, that was really good. I'm going to make that. Are you? What's it called?

Vesanto Melina

It's called cauliflower basmati rice salad.

Chef AJ

Yeah, that looks delicious. That's the one I put the little post-op on.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. It can be so daunting for people to start preparing food. So what we want to do now, one of the things for diabetics is they don't want a whole lot of rice. The whole plant foods such as cauliflower deliver glucose in a much more sustaining way without the big jumps in blood sugar. Did you find it?

Chef AJ

Yep, that's on page 94. And it only calls for one cup of cooked rice. And compared to all the vegetables in it, that's really not that much.

Vesanto Melina

That's right. So what we're doing when we use this whole foods plant-based approach with type 2 diabetes or type 1 is to include a lot of vegetables, really colorful. And they deliver these protective antioxidants. I also think this is huge protection against coronavirus because your body has the ammunition it needs to keep you healthy. Here's another fun one.

Chef AJ

That's beautiful. I don't know if she's frozen. Okay. Well, hello, everybody. Well, we're waiting for her to come back. I'm going to answer the question about do they have, what format does the book come in? I saw this from somebody named Pearl. Let me, and I did look it up on Amazon and it does come in the paperback copy that I have shown you. And it also comes in It comes in Kindle as well. So you can find both on Amazon and I have been posting the link. You back, Vesanto.

Vesanto Melina

Yep.

Chef AJ

Oh, good, Because I have lots and lots of questions for you. So there's a question. Do you have any thoughts on the diabetic Robbie from Mindful Diabetic? He's a type 1 diabetes who eats 100% raw diet of mostly fruit.

Vesanto Melina

With Robbie and there.

Chef AJ

Yeah, Rob. They're asking what you think of, maybe, I don't know if they're asking what you think of Robbie personally or what you think of 100% raw food diet of all fruit for diabetics.

Vesanto Melina

A 100% raw can work okay. It can be a challenge to get the protein up high enough, but 100% with high fruit, I'm just not sure. I don't think I'm that experienced with that being good. But I've found, unfortunately, it can taste wonderful and be great for a few months, but then your protein, iron and zinc start getting too low. So it's better to, what I think works a lot better is to have lots of fruits and vegetables be high raw, but include some beans, peas, lentils. And I know I taught at a chef school in California that was entirely raw and then moved to be raw plus cooked. And the head of that school, Sherry Soria, would include things like the sweet potatoes that we see here and some beans. And then it works really well. Things like corn can be raw. Corn on the cob is delicious raw. Have you had that?

Chef AJ

Yeah, it really is. It doesn't really taste that much different.

Vesanto Melina

No, it's really good. I've just got a few more slides. We're moving into dessert now.

Chef AJ

Sure, and then let me know when I can go back to the question.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, and then we'll. I'll go back to, so we've got the three sisters go green. Remember what the three sisters are.

Chef AJ

Corn, bean, and squash.

Vesanto Melina

That's right, yeah, so they were a really excellent, healthy North American Indigenous peoples eating. And then there's some sort of little burger patties, there's a gravy. This is one of my favorite things to have as an emergency, when my blood sugar gets low, bliss balls. And these ones have lime in them and they just have dates, nuts. And I keep them in the bottom of my freezer. So yeah, I'll just have one or two. And you know, when there's that sweet treat need, or you can, these, they're made with basically this sort of ingredients. Now the black beans, the black bean brownies, these were actually a recipe adapted from Joel Fuhrman, who's got some really good ideas. So it's just fun that you can put beans into all kinds of things. Absolutely. And our last food slide is chia pudding, because the omega-3s are really important for people. And the sweetener here can be dates. So anyway, that's the end of my screen sharing.

Chef AJ

I love that you use dates.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. And our websites are the KIP Diabetes Cookbook. Now.

Chef AJ

I've been posting the link to your book on Amazon several times. Oh yeah, your chia pudding, that looks really good.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, isn't that good? Oh gosh.

Chef AJ

And you know what, I have all the ingredients right now. I could literally go make it right now.

Vesanto Melina

It's simple as anything.

Chef AJ

Wow. I think I will make it, but I'll wait until we're done talking. So Robert wants to know, what's the most interesting place you've been on tour? You must have seen amazing parts of the world.

Vesanto Melina

I have. I'm just trying to get out of screen sharing.

Chef AJ

We can see you now perfectly.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, you can. Oh, good. I got, I have had the privilege of going so many places to Dresden, Germany. where they had the first vegetarian conference in, I think it was 1908, went for their 100 year anniversary. I've been to Hawaii a number of times and to Italy where Cinque Terre, but one of my favorite places was Reykjavik. So you would never think that people in Reykjavik would be going plant-based. But I was quite surprised at, there were a number of vegan restaurants, a really cool scene. Sometimes Reykjavik doesn't get colder than Paris in January. So it wasn't quite what I expected in terms of coldness. It was actually lovely. And because they have underwater, like hot pools, they have a lot of greenhouses. So there were a lot of vegetables and fruits, and people were very interested. One of the people who started a Whole Foods type restaurant called Glow had gone to the chef school that I attended. So one of the fun things I find is that people all over the world are moving in this direction. I mean, of course, some parts of the world already were very plant-based and didn't have the option of being as healthy plant-based as we North Americans and people in Europe have. But it's really becoming of great interest in all kinds of places. It was also fun to teach at that chef school, which was very Whole Foods, because there were people from the Philippines, people from India, that were going back to their countries to show, here's how to do the foods you like, but do them in a real healthy way.

Chef AJ

Yeah, I actually attended that school in 2003, and we could have crossed paths sooner, perhaps.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, that's right.

Chef AJ

Betty wants to know if eating raw collard greens or kale can hurt the digestive system.

Vesanto Melina

It can be a little kind of hard work if you don't take out the main stem and cut it matchstick thin. I think for some people, their digestion, you know, it's like we have little variations. And for some people, they either don't chew it well enough, or you've got these great big pieces and your digestive tract is struggling. For some people, that's pretty normal to be putting down greens like that. So the trick is to take out the stem and then chop it matchstick thin. And then you can use it in all sorts of things. And of course, What I had this morning with kale, which I just picked from outside in my smoothie, then it's ground up. We also find that if you use something like that in a smoothie, the absorption is greatly increased. The absorption of phytochemicals, of vitamins, of minerals, you just ease that absorption because you've broken up the cells and almost like started the digestive process in your blender.

Chef AJ

Yep. speaking of smoothies, Gina has a question. What can I do with turmeric other than put it in smoothies?

Vesanto Melina

I've got it in some salad dressings that make it a bright yellow color. I bet you've got some ideas, AJ.

Chef AJ

Yeah, well, I like there's a comment here from someone. I'll try to get Jesse says that, sorry, Jesse, I don't know if you're, I'm thinking you're a girl, the way it's spelled. I treat fresh turmeric like fresh ginger, great for zest, or microplate, into soup, stews, veggie sautés. Use it into your smoothies. I do the same thing when it's fresh. I like if I'm doing a stir fry or any kind of vegetable, I do think of it very much like ginger and I'll almost put both of them in if I'm doing it. Ginger, garlic, and turmeric, all fresh. Really good.

Vesanto Melina

That's great.

Chef AJ

Yeah, thank you. And the powdered one, I actually, when we were talking before we came on, you were asking me how I'm doing with my concussion and I'm doing great. And one of the things I actually saw the Shirzai's, the vegan neurologist at Loma Linda, and one of the things they told me is they wanted me to have turmeric every day. It's supposed to be really good for inflammation. And they told me to make like a little like milk, meaning take a plant milk and put in some turmeric and put in some cinnamon. And I can put a sweetener if I wanted. It's actually pretty good, you know. That's great. Yeah, Elle says or asks, are there any negative effects of eating a few pounds of spinach daily?

Vesanto Melina

Well, my husband cannot eat a few pounds of spinach daily because he has a tendency for kidney stones. And spinach, it has the presence of calcium, but it's all bound up with oxalate. So even though there's lots of calcium in there, we don't absorb that calcium. And we do end up with some oxalate, which is like little prickly things when it goes into your body to make kidney stones. Now, lots of us don't get kidney stones, but those who have a tendency for that need to avoid foods that have high oxalates, which include rhubarb, spinach, and beet greens and beets.

Chef AJ

Wow, and I think the beet green is the best part of the beet, to be honest.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, so we're all good with that. I can eat that, but my husband would be better off not to, because he just has that tendency. Like, you know, I think we need to eat healthy for different reasons, and we have our Achilles heel in different places. So his Achilles heel is in the kidney stones area. Mine would be in the blood sugar, diabetes area.

Chef AJ

Mine is in the anxiety area, but it doesn't seem to make a difference unless I eat poorly. So who in the plant-based world has influenced you the most?

Vesanto Melina

Who has influenced me the most?

Chef AJ

If anyone.

Vesanto Melina

Wow. Such a privilege. I told John Robbins one day that I admired him so much because, there was this team of people that were changing the world. And he said, well, now you're on that team. And I just find that it's such a privilege that there are so many of us and a growing number that are getting good at different areas. I mean, you and True North people have been a tremendous influence that working with Brenda for all these years. Brenda Davis has been really fun for me to work with. And we've collaborated for 20, 24 years now. and still our friends. That's great and also keep learning from each other. We can try out different things. So I love that we can talk to other people, like we talked to Michael Greger about what should we be recommending specifically for B12 levels. I've found it a huge privilege to work with people in the American Dietetic Association. And there is a vegetarian practice group there, but we can bounce ideas off each other. So I think the fun of it is that there are so many different people to inspire us. Oh, I know what else. Probably my dad and my mom, because my dad was working with diabetes and physiology, and my mom liked making healthy food for us. So that was a good combo.

Chef AJ

That's neat. Robert asked for the dietitians that are hesitant to adopt or recommend a plant-based diet, where do you think the hesitation comes from?

Vesanto Melina

I think that a lot of health professionals just don't know enough about it on a practical level. You know that Dr. Michael Clapper's been going around trying to get medical doctors to get interested in prevention. But we don't necessarily learn that much about prevention in school. I mean, when I started writing our books, it was in the 80s. And just before I met Brenda, I was doing workshops. I did one for dietitians and I was so nervous. I spent six months getting ready and I wasn't sure if anybody'd sign up. This is in the 80s. And I had actually 45 people sign up, and for six months of work, I made $500. I was so thrilled that it even went through, but it was just new for them. People did not know. We learned all this theoretical stuff, and we learned our workshops were hosted by Ensure or the Ag Board. Even now, there’s still a big push, like in California, about beef and supporting the beef industry, the egg industry. So there's just not a practical familiarity. But there is a strong vegetarian dietary practice group. And I can, if you have a website that's linked with this, I can send you the link for it. But there's usually about 1,500 members who are dietitians.

Chef AJ

If you give me that link, I'll put anything you'd like. This is live right now, but then it's going to be on YouTube forever. So anything you'd like me to say, what's called the show notes, please, you know, get that to me and I'll insert that, of course. You know, Colleen says you sound just like Brenda Davis and when you close your eyes, you do, you both, you have very similar voices.

Vesanto Melina

There's also a website about plant-based MDs. I'll give you that link too. And there's some dieticians in other health care.

Chef AJ

Plant-based docs.org, I believe it is.

Vesanto Melina

That's right, yeah.

Chef AJ

Elle asks, would you recommend subbing kale or chard in a morning smoothie for the spinach?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, I put kale in mine this morning. And I just took the stem out, but it was, it's good. I mean, the blender just blends it up perfectly.

Chef AJ

Yeah, nice. Do you guys have any more questions for Vesanto? Do you have any new books? You have 14 books, is that how many you wrote?

Vesanto Melina

I think it's 13, but yeah. I'm doing another one on pregnancy eventually. Yeah.

Chef AJ

Wow. That's, yeah, that'll be very useful because a lot of people think you can't have plant-based pregnancies or even plant-based children.

Vesanto Melina

But right now we have, our most popular one is, can you see this?

Chef AJ

Yes, Becoming Vegan. I have it.

Vesanto Melina

Becoming Vegan. And we did a raw book, which I found quite fascinating to do, was this was with Brenda Davis as well. But after teaching at that chef school, I was fascinated with raw foods and we found that there were a number, there was quite a bit of misinformation or things that weren't scientifically valid. So we went over it in a lot of detail and that's what we put in our Becoming Raw book.

Chef AJ

That's good. Do you happen to know either Rick or Karen Dina?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. They've come up and visited here and done workshops here. Yeah. I actually saw them in December when I was.

Chef AJ

Yeah. They're great. They're doing a summit right now. You'd be great on it. And I actually interviewed him last week. It was almost 90 minutes. He had so much to say on the topic. He's so passionate about it. Okay. And Ella's saying that on the covers of your book, you have beautiful artwork. That is so true. So my rep says, do you like smoothies when so many of the plant-based doctors don't? And I think it's mostly like Dr. Esselstyn, who's just trying to, you know, get the people to eat their greens.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, well, we have to not have a one-size-fits-all. We really, you know, some people, I had a client this week, that really wanted to use simple, simple stuff. And even chopping things up for a salad was way too much work. So when you've got somebody like that, you just help them at the place they are the best they can.

Chef AJ

Absolutely, I agree. Judy says, what one book would you recommend? My husband gives to his endocrinologist and dietitian to explain this way of eating. He has diabetes and follows his doctor's recommendations instead of mine. Yes, she says it's frustrating. It's always frustrating when your husband doesn't listen to you, especially when you're right.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, I know it is, it is, it is. And I don't know, I don't tend to give people books until they kind of want them. I don't know if it'll work. I think sometimes you can give somebody some food better than a book, because if it tastes good, they'll go, oh, this is okay. I could eat this once a year. You know, I could eat this once a month. I could eat it once a week. You know, they get gradually, gradually into it. And if you, the book that would be most helpful is our Becoming Vegan Comprehensive Edition. That's like for a health professional. It's a college text as well. But then there is a simpler version, which is Becoming Vegan Express Edition. But if people aren't interested, it's just going to sit on their shelf. So, yeah.

Chef AJ

I believe it's Dr. Barnard who said we're supposed to do something like you put a little post-op in and say, this made me think of you, so that they have to like read that page or something like that.

Vesanto Melina

That's it. He's got real good ideas, doesn't he?

Chef AJ

Yeah, He's fantastic. Fantastic. Okay, so a question on B12 from Lori. Do you recommend any supplements besides B12?

Vesanto Melina

I also recommend vitamin D. And it's partly because I'm in Canada, so we're in the northern latitude. But we also find people in Los Angeles and San Diego are low in vitamin D. In Arizona, they're in lower latitudes, but they have two challenges. One is that there can be air pollution. And that prevents the solar energy coming through, the ultraviolet V rays that we want. And also people tend to get in their car, drive into their carport, drive to work. They're not outdoors that much to get vitamin D. And we've even had a research report from Honolulu, which was based on skateboarders who were in their 20s, who were outside for 27 hours a week, and they still, a number of them were low in vitamin D. D. So we're not quite sure. So I think a lot of people need vitamin D and we need that for bone health and we need it also, it reduces our risk of cancer. It has many, many uses in the body. Then other than that, I typically do consultations with people and I typically...

Chef AJ

That was going to be my next question. How would they get in touch with you if they wanted to have a consultation?

Vesanto Melina

Oh, okay. In that one of the slides we showed has my e-mail address. It's my name, vesanto.melina@gmail.com. And so I do distance consultations with people all over. I've done them with some of the rock stars that are vegan as well. And just with all sorts of people all over the place. But I have people do a food record and then I do a nutritional analysis with a very good program that I have. And then we figure out where the challenges are and tweak it and make it work well for them. And I also show them ways to make it that fit their lifestyle.

Chef AJ

Very good. What vitamin D do you suggest? And people need to know they can get their vitamin D and their B12 tested.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. Usually, in our medical system, a lot of times it won't cover vitamin D. And so, but the vitamin D council has a quick and easy test, or I just pay to get my mind done. It's usually about $60 or something like that. But I've been really interested in it, and I want to maintain my bone health as I get older and older. And so I've, and another thing I found out, I was taking, I have had asthma a little bit, and I was taking Symbicort a little bit, but I found it effect, I think it affected my vitamin D level, because this is a puffer, like for asthma. And so I stopped taking it, but my vitamin D had gone down. And anyway, that was interesting because medications can affect things. I don't take any medications now, and I typically don't like to do any. So that was an interesting thing. So in summary, you need B12, typically a thousand micrograms twice a week, and vitamin D, probably a thousand international units if you're young, like in your 20s, 30s, 40s and double that if you're older, like senior approaching that. Daily, the vitamin Ds daily, the B12s twice a week.

Chef AJ

Colleen says women are always right. Well, I'm not going to disagree with you because you're a woman. And Laurie wants to know, what's your feelings about HRT for women post-menopause?

Vesanto Melina

I am actually not sure. I certainly chose not to do that. And it seemed to kind of mess with things. But that would be somewhat more of a medical question, depending on the person's actual situation. I should like to avoid medications.

Chef AJ

I don't blame you. But as luck would have it, guys, if you come back tomorrow, I'll be interviewing 2 doctors live tomorrow. At 11 A.m. I have Dr. Stefan Esser and at 2 P.m. I have Dr. Frank Sabatino. So if you come back, we'll be happy to ask those questions. Yeah.

Vesanto Melina

Good. Okay.

Chef AJ

Yeah. So what's it like in Canada right now? Are you sheltering at home as well?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah. Oh, I'll tell you, I live in co-housing. And we have, it would be like an Italian village. We have three levels at some places are down to one level. We have a big courtyard. Every evening, we go out at 7 o'clock and bang pots on the street for the healthcare workers. And then at 7.05, we come in and I'll have two songs we all sing together. So they're like, stand by me or you've got a friend or They're about sunshine. Anyway, they're really fun. So we have people in our community, like a bass player with the Vancouver Symphony and a couple of cello teachers. So we have all these string instruments come up and play and we distance, you know, we keep very carefully maintaining the distance. We spray our handrails and we're still having fun, you know, with some connections and I'm finding there's actually some nice aspects to this. I'm getting to know my neighbors from a distance, but in different ways. People have more time for each other. We're going on long walks and allowed to be out in, you know, on the streets, but people are very carefully. Actually, Vancouver had the first death that I was aware of in North America back in, I think, February. in a nursing home. So we were careful right off the bat. We were like, yikes, we better watch this. And that has worked very well. Unfortunately, I think a number of the states have not had that careful response. But I'm finding it's probably going to turn out to be some nice things with this.

Chef AJ

And what we're learning from all the health professionals is that when you have a lifestyle disease like heart disease or diabetes, which we know is not only preventable with a whole food plant-based diet, but largely, if not completely reversible, you have increased your risk for this virus, which is why you want to get books like Kick Diabetes Cookbook so that you can have some delicious recipes and take control of your health destiny.

Vesanto Melina

It is available online as well. It gives an e-book.

Chef AJ

Nice.

Vesanto Melina

And this is another fun time to be preparing food.

Chef AJ

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Vesanto Melina

We didn't do it.

Chef AJ

Very much. Couple more questions and then I'll let you go so you can continue to write your upcoming pregnancy book. Florence wants to know, is turmeric powder equally as effective as fresh turmeric?

Vesanto Melina

Well, usually the general rule is that the fresh foods have additional protective substances in them. that aren't there when it gets dried and powdered. But I think some of the substances are there as well, like turmeric or garlic, they have a lot of health protective components and some of them get through the drying process and some don't. But dried turmeric certainly has an advantage as a health protective substance, even when it's dried.

Chef AJ

Nice. Deborah wants to know, do you recommend a vegan vitamin? I'm wondering if she maybe means like a multivitamin?

Vesanto Melina

Yes, I think it depends what somebody's overall diet is. Now, I don't recommend multivitamins as much as I did 10 years ago. We've been kind of finding that backing off a little bit from suggesting them for everyday use. And what I find is it might be good to have one once or twice a week just to top yourself up. But I only recommend that when I've looked at somebody's diet and see if there are holes in it, if they're not getting enough zinc or they're not getting enough vitamin A. And then we try and fix it with food first.

Chef AJ

I love that. Fix it with food first. That'd be a great title for a book, actually.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, good. Yeah. Go for it. I like it. Well, what are others?

Chef AJ

Carol says, what are your thoughts on Prolia since I have severe osteoporosis?

Vesanto Melina

I think, yeah, I'm just trying to remember. I had a client last week that had that and had done remarkably well with that. But I don't think I know enough about it to give a good answer.

Chef AJ

Is that a medication, I'm guessing? Yeah. Okay. I know there's a great book by Amy Joy Lanoux called, it's something about, it's building bone vitality.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, I was quite surprised that this client of mine had a bone building supplement and she had increased her bone density. in the last 20 years. Now, I've maintained my bone density. And how I did that was by three things, making sure I get enough calcium, like up. So that was like taking a calcium supplement that was about 250 or 300 milligrams at two different times in the day, taking vitamin D, now about 2000 international units, and getting weight-bearing exercise.

Chef AJ

Good.

Vesanto Melina

In that combo.

Chef AJ

Sugar Plum asks, do you eat some type of seaweed or nori to get your iodine or maybe iodized salt? No, did she freeze again? I think when I have people that are farther away, we seem to have more problems. So if we don't get her back, then you can have a consult. I put her e-mail address. And you can also ask the doctors tomorrow. We'll be having Frank Sabatino at 2 P.m. This is Pacific time. And at 11 A.m., Dr. Esser, are you back, Peasant? Oh my God, I can't hear you.

Vesanto Melina

We recommend the very specifics in our different books, you know, Becoming Vegan and so on, and give the different options and how much. The only challenge with seaweeds is we don't often know how much iodine's in there. So I found the iodine, iodized salt, and I use a little bit of salt. So there are different options for people. Iodine supplements can give you too much, boy, if you use the wrong amount, because iodine can be toxic in excess.

Chef AJ

Oh my, I just, I eat something called dulse and it's, it tastes pretty good. So it's called smoked dulse. I take it when I think of it. Because like you say, get it from food if you can. I try to do. Florence says, I recently started using nutmeg and I heard that I need to be careful when using it. Are there any dangers in using nutmeg?

Vesanto Melina

Oh, I can't remember what it is for nutmeg. It's got somewhere on it. I never liked it, so I didn't get into trouble.

Chef AJ

I find it sometimes it's bitter nutmeg.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah.

Chef AJ

I'm going to Google it really quick and see if it triggers your memory. Dangers of nutmeg. Just ask Dr. Google here. Toxic doses of myristicin have caused organ failure. How do you like that? It's so vegan Bella saying nutmeg is high as toxic in high doses. It's so potent that if I do use it in a recipe, it's like an eighth of a teaspoon. It's very.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah.

Chef AJ

Yeah, this has been just so lovely catching up with you. This is a beautiful book. I encourage you guys to check it out. I'll post the link one last time on Amazon so you can check it out. And if you come back on Wednesday, April 22nd, the co-author of this book, Brenda Davis, will also be talking about diabetes. And if you want a private consultation, posted Vesanto's e-mail and then she can work with you individually as well. So thank you so much for all the wonderful books you've written and continue to write and just for being just such a shining light in the plant-based world in Canada.

Vesanto Melina

Thank you, AJ. I'm lead author of the position paper on vegetarian nutrition, too, for the American Dietetic Association.

Chef AJ

Is there a way we can see that paper when you provide me with all the links in the show notes? Maybe we can link to that?

Vesanto Melina

I didn't put that website link, but I'll send it to you. The NutriSpeak website has a link to that position paper. It's a really good summary, so you can show your doctor or your baby clinic or anybody this is approved It's a good way of eating. It's really helpful.

Chef AJ

It might be easier for them to read than a whole book, actually.

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, it's only 8 pages.

Chef AJ

Nice.

Vesanto Melina

They can be quick.

Chef AJ

That's terrific. I look forward to getting the link and printing it out.

Vesanto Melina

It's used all over the world, that paper. And I was lead author of the current one.

Chef AJ

Well, I can't wait to read it. You guys, thank you so much for being here and for your kind comments. Hope to see you back tomorrow. And thank you so much again, Vesanto. It's a pleasure catching up with you.

Vesanto Melina

Thanks, AJ.

Chef AJ

Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

 

 

 

 

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