Vesanto Melina

Canadians live a little bit longer than Americans and women live a little bit longer than men, maybe three or four years longer. But the last at least 13 years can be in really poor health. You're tied to this very difficult lifestyle, going to doctors all the time, in bed with tubes. And we really want to help people be vigorous and happy, playing with their grandchildren outdoors, doing the things that they thought they'd like to do when they were older. So that's been our real goal for this book.

Dr. Charlyn Black

If anything, the current diets have nutritional shortcomings. They're typically low in fiber. They're low in phytochemicals. Plant-based diets are excellent Plant-based proteins have been found to be much more protective than animal-based. So I would not worry about nutritional shortcomings. I'd worry about nutritional shortcomings with the standard way of eating. And I believe that a jump to plant-based eating really gives us many more nutrients per bite, many more nutrients on our typical plate of what we eat every day.

Brigitte Gemme

Welcome to the Plant Wise podcast to my 2 esteemed guests today who are also great local Vancouver friends, Vesanto Melina and Charlyn Black. You probably know already of Brenda Davis and Vesanto as a duo because they have together shared much evidence-based nutrition guidance with their books, with the what I call the most authoritative reference on plant-based nutrition, the book Becoming Vegan. And they have participated, of course, in so many podcasts and conferences. And they are just publishing this new book, but there is a twist. They are bringing in Dr. Charlyn Black, who is a researcher and educator and also a physician with a long-standing interest in disease prevention and plant-based lifestyle. So together, they are a plant-powered trio and they have much to say and great tips and advice to give to seniors with this new book that I've been recommending to everybody I know but it's just coming out this week so you haven't missed out yet but you have to get on it. Let me introduce them briefly. Vesanto and I go back about 10 years. I was so lucky to have her as a guest speaker for the first event I organized in my vegan journey as That was called the Dairy Free Living Event here in Vancouver. She is an internationally recognized dietitian, award-winning author, educator, speaker, and specialized in plant-based nutrition. She has published all of those books, including Plant Powered Protein, which is another one I really love, especially the black bean cookie surprise cookie something, one of my favorite recipes, and the Kick Diabetes cookbook and many more. Dr. Charlyn Black is a professor emeritus in population and public health at the University of British Columbia here in Vancouver. She is a physician, a researcher, and educator with a long-standing interest in Public health, the determining social, determining factors of health, it's not just about what we do. It's also much higher level policy aspects that she's been researching and advising on for years, but also has a personal stake and interest in this. And we have known each other. Charlyn, do you remember how we first met?

Dr. Charlyn Black

I think we did cooking clubs together in live and in person before COVID.

Brigitte Gemme

Yes, those were the great days of cooking together. I am glad we're still doing it. Charlin is a regular, by the way, at the online cooking club that I still run every other Sunday. Everybody is welcome. It's a free group program that's been life-changing for me and I can't stop talking about it. So strongly recommend you all attend. But that's not what we're here to talk about. We are here to talk about plant-powered seniors. And I want to ask both of you, who needs to read this book and what are they going to get out of it?

Dr. Charlyn Black

Maybe I'll start. There have been many, many books about how to adopt A plant-based lifestyle, but there were none that we could find about the specific needs of seniors. And as we move into these years, our nutritional needs actually change. And so for me, working with Vesanto and Brenda has been really wonderful. I've learned so much about what changes and what I need to do to stay healthy as I move forward. We're all seniors, but I would say that anyone who is 50 and above or hopes to be there should read this book. Certainly calling all seniors and family members who want to help their parents, their grandparents, give them some good advice. There is just so much to learn about what changes and how we need to adapt. There are some real big changes. One of them is that nutrition gets more challenging. Every bite needs to count as we move into these years. So, just Vesanto, anything you want to add?

Vesanto Melina

No, that's a good summary, Charlyn. Yeah, and we all are both experts in the science. And we're experts from living it too. I'm 84. Charlotte's in her 70s. Brenda Davis is in her late 60s. And so we have experience and we've got experience with our friends and neighbors too, seeing what they go through. So it was just a wonderful experience to put this together.

Brigitte Gemme

I love that you're able to draw from your personal experience also, Vesanto, that of your many nutrition clients as a registered dietitian. I'm sure there's a lot of case studies there that you can talk about. I know that there's many people who are curious about plant-powered living, but they stay on the fence. There's a number of concerns. And Charlyn, you've said it, as people age, every bite has higher stakes, not the meat kind of stakes, but the importance of it. And often smaller appetites maybe. It's important to have more nutrition in every meal. And I'm aware that my mother lives in a retirement home community and many, many people around her are still consuming a lot of eggs and fish and meat because they're afraid of being low on nutrition. What do you want to say to them?

Vesanto Melina

First of all, if it's an individual living by themself, that kind of change need not be immediate, 100% leap in. You can do it gradually. In fact, I've been vegetarian since the late 70s and vegan since 1993, 32 years, 33 years. And just keep learning stuff all the time. It's okay to be gradual, learn what different aisle to go down in the supermarket, learn what things taste good, because you want really wonderful, you want need about 7 to 10 favorite well loved recipes. And you've got to figure out what those are things that and you have the equipment for it, that kind of thing. By the way, we've got really good recipes in plant powered seniors. And we had recipe testers. I was just at the gym with some of them that they wouldn't let a recipe go into our book unless it had five stars like we made them up and then we send it out to our testers and they've got different perspectives and so our guidance is both very practical in plant-powered seniors and it's also very science-based and another interesting thing was that our approach could be very simple Or it could be gourmet, like Brenda Davis has a different cooking style. Charlyn has a different cooking style, lots of quantity things. And I like very simple. I'm kind of the Johnny Cash. So I'd always be going, let's say this in really simple words kind of thing. And with that, we ended up with the whole spectrum. It was wonderful. And one of the other things I want to say specifically is about protein, because people are always struggling with, you see the news saying that you have to go on this paleo diet to get better, a keto diet, very protein based. But the protein, we want to build it in through the day, lots of legumes. But that doesn't mean you got to have a big bowl of beans at breakfast, big bowl of beans at lunch, big bowl of beans at supper. Things like peanut butter on your toast. That's a legume, peanuts are. You can have pea protein in your smoothie. You can have oatmeal with soy milk or some dry cereal. Like that's just breakfast examples. And at lunch and dinner. Well, there's 20 types of legumes that people commonly eat. And so you can find wonderful recipes, but it sometimes does take a little bit of time.

Dr. Charlyn Black

I'm going to respond to your focus on nutrition, worried about nutritional shortcomings. If anything, the current diets have nutritional shortcomings. They're typically low in fiber, they're low in phytochemicals, Plant-based diets are excellent. And in fact, plant-based proteins have been found to be much more protective than animal-based and dairy, etc. protein for protecting our health. So I would not worry about nutritional shortcomings. I'd worry about nutritional shortcomings with the standard way of eating. And I believe that a jump to plant-based eating really gives us many more nutrients per bite, many more nutrients on our typical plate of what we eat every day. So it's a bonus, not a risk.

Brigitte Gemme

Right.

Dr. Charlyn Black

It really loads the nutrition.

Brigitte Gemme

Again, circling back to what we were saying earlier, where every bite matters and you can have more in every bite if you're choosing plant-based foods.

Dr. Charlyn Black

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's the best way to assure and as a physician and a researcher who studied how to prevent, mitigate and reverse chronic diseases, there is so much scientific evidence that these types of diets are the best ways we can do that. I'm a member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, and this is now a specialty in medicine in the US that recommends plant-based diets based on the best science. So this is the way to go.

Brigitte Gemme

The evidence is incontrovertible.

Dr. Charlyn Black

Yes.

Brigitte Gemme

Much of my audience is people who are already, if not fully plant-based and vegan, heavily plant-leaning. And I would like to ask you, what do you think are the most common mistakes seniors who are already plant-based are making when they think about their health and their nutrition?

Vesanto Melina

Well, here's an evolution I went through. I used to think that vegan was the way to go. just go vegan, you'll be healthier. Now I think well-planned vegan is the way to go. And so we've really been watching and the research is coming out thick and fast. I've been a dietitian and a nutritionist. I started teaching at university in 1965. Boy, have I seen changes in our understanding of nutrition and it's still happening. So we used to think for example, that you could get your omega-3s, and it's in our earlier books, from having hemp, hemp seeds, flax seeds, chia, walnuts. Now we're finding that we don't change those to the long chain omega-3s very efficiently, but we still don't have real guidelines about that. So it's an example of how the research is very lively field. And the recommended intakes for some things haven't kept up with what we need. And also we vary from person to person. Another big one is vitamin D. And I was speaking in Maui and Honolulu earlier this year, and I found that a lot of the people, including seniors in Hawaii, were low in vitamin D. it's sunny, how could that be? But they were, that was from the cancer center and their dietitians there. And it turns out, of course, that we have things like smog block some of the rays. people cover up, they have, we thought you could expose your face and your forearms and get enough vitamin D. Well, that doesn't always work because people are covered up. They get into their car in that parkade or in their garage and drive to the shopping mall or their work. So there's all, and people wear big hats or wear parasols. So anyway, we've got all these ways. So we found that it was really interesting for people to get their vitamin D levels checked, even though you might have to pay once to see, hey, am I at the right place? And then you can adjust it. The other one is the omega-3 fatty acids. And different labs can do that. Omega Quant can do that. And we can check whether our serum levels are at the right level. And of course, we want to keep our brain going into old age and all our cells that need the long chain omega-3s, DHA and EPA. And vary from one person to another for omega-3s and for vitamin D. So this is one of the areas that's really interesting. And so another thing, I do consultations with seniors quite a bit, well, with adults in all kinds of different stages of life. And I find a lot of people are low in calcium. And we used to have our food guide made-up. You were supposed to drink 4 cups of cow's milk a day and then you'd get your calcium. I know. Yeah. Because if you drink, cow's milk was designed to bring a little calf up to about 400 pounds at least in four to six months. That's what it's supposed to do. So the cow wanted it to do. And not that many people I know want to go for 400 pounds within the year or even in 20 years. So this is a very, it's thought of as a protein food, but it's actually a fat food. So anyway, but there are ways to get calcium on the plant-based diet. But I find even then a lot of people need topping up with a bit of a supplement. So we've been interested in plant-bowed seniors to exactly what supplements you might need or might need to explore. And of course, vitamin B12 is very important, but most people on going plant-based know about that one. You've got to get that into the picture.

Dr. Charlyn Black

Yeah, the other thing I... Just if I could, Brigitte, is that I learned that has changed since I've been working on this book is figuring out how much protein we need. And as our appetites decline, as we try and squeeze in all the nutrients, getting enough protein is important, but can be hard. And so we come from a culture where we think we get our most protein at the end of the day. But what's really what I've found that a lot of people don't understand is how important it is to distribute it through the day, trying to get 20 grams at every meal, sneak it in a snack, sneak it in dessert. There are all sorts of ways to do that. So that's one other thing I would add is just the need to distribute our protein intake rather than the typical approach has been the North American approach has been to have a big protein centric meal at the end of the day. Well, Often I'm not as hungry at the end of the day. And anyway, so trying to get more protein scheduled throughout the day, I think is an important one.

Brigitte Gemme

And if I may ask from you to be very specific, if anybody just listens to this part of the interview, how much protein should people be aiming for?

Vesanto Melina

Okay, well, the official North American intake, the recommendation RDA. is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of healthy body weight. So that means if you're way overweight, you'd still base it on your, not all your fat cells that don't need as much, but just on your healthy body weight. And if you're way underweight, you need more. But we're finding out that the European countries, especially the Scandinavian, Australia, New Zealand, their recommended intakes for seniors are increased. and are one gram per kilogram or up to 1.2 grams per kilogram. And I found that actually works very well, even to be at the 1.2, which is possible and doable. And so that's a much better goal. And it usually ends up being like 50 or maybe up to 70 grams, but not these 170 grams that you'll find on some of the websites that are, and it must be for people really confusing. You look at all these crazy ideas. Yeah. By the way, I just got kicked out of a fitness class this morning because I was too fit.

Brigitte Gemme

Say more. What happened? Was it a senior's class?

Vesanto Melina

It was a senior's class for balance. And I went, I had two classes today. I had my regular fitness and then I signed up for one about balance. And I got there and she said, you're too fit. You can't come to this class. I went, she said, go back to the desk and get your money back.

Brigitte Gemme

Oh no. I know last time we talked, you mentioned to me that you were doing a two-minute plank. these days. Is that still part of your regular training?

Vesanto Melina

It is, yeah. It's good for those core muscles. And of course, like everybody who's older, I'm getting a bit more creaky and my balance and that kind of thing. But it's really good if we keep that going at whatever level we can. It's very, very important. And for the protein, you can eat that protein, sit and watch TV. That's not going to work. You really have to sort of do the things that keep your blood circulating around, that keep your muscles knowing they have to add protein, build it in. Your bones are a matrix of the minerals in the protein. So it's really important to do the exercise, a bit of the impact and different ways, all kinds of things.

Brigitte Gemme

Yeah, it's not just the protein, but also the calcium. It won't just build your bones if you're sitting on the couch lifting popcorn. It's not even heavy enough.

Vesanto Melina

Good one.

Brigitte Gemme

You mentioned in the book, I really appreciate that you have a whole chapter on the other pillars of healthy habits. Would you like to say something about that? What are we especially at risk of neglecting as we go into the second-half of life in terms of other good habits that complement our nutrition?

Dr. Charlyn Black

We've really built those on the American College of Lifestyle Medicine 6 pillars. And so we go through each of them. Obviously, nutrition is the one we focused on to the greatest extent. And Vesanto just talked about the benefits of movement, exercise, resistance training, that kind of thing. Sleep, and sleep can be especially challenging as we age. What's interesting is we need the same amount of sleep, but the way we get it may be very challenging. We tend to have more interrupted sleep. We have challenges falling asleep. We have challenges staying asleep. We get up in the middle of the night to take a pee break. There are all sorts of reasons why it's more challenging. So there are. There are some specific things that we can do as seniors, really paying attention to our circadian rhythms and their details in the book. Another is dealing with stress and stress is part of life. Some stress is very healthy, but other chronic stress, unresolved, worrying, ruminating can really be detrimental. Avoiding risky substances, the new evidence on alcohol. on other risky substances, like tobacco we've known about for years and other addictive things, things that we get addicted to. And so then the other one that I think is most neglected or most least understood is social connection. And that's a really important one. Social connection and loneliness carry huge health risks and it's really important, it's associated with higher levels of mortality. So this is something, how do we maintain our communities? And we can talk more about how we do that as a plant-based community if you want.

Brigitte Gemme

Yes, I wanted to go there because if you've listened to some past PlantWise podcast episodes, I had some of my co-hosts from the PlantWise Book Club. We're a group of slightly nerdy, bookish people who really care about their health and we interview wonderful authors such as yourself. So there was this episode where one of my co-hosts Alan, he was actually part of one of my cooking clubs. Sharlon, you may remember him, was saying that as an older man, it was extremely challenging for him to maintain his social connections because so much of the friendships are basically around food and alcohol. And so as someone who's more health oriented, how can we not lose absolutely every friend we have? Say more.

Dr. Charlyn Black

There are already challenges as we grow older. People move away, people get ill, that kind of thing. And then to introduce our nerdiness and weirdness as plant-based eaters can be really challenging. But I think bringing a sense of the benefits and the celebration we get from living this way and trying to bring that forward in our interactions is important. So if we're dining at a friend's place, just let people know about and offer to bring a dish that you can share with others. If you're hosting, try and cook some great food. But we don't want to preach. We want to set by example and by being warm and inviting and just showing people how wonderful this way of life can be. Dining out and going out to restaurants, there are tricks you can use. You can First of all, encourage your friends to go to restaurants where they're at least vegan or vegetarian options. Happy Cow is a great app to find restaurants near you. can check menus before you go and say, is there anything I can find there? You can even phone ahead and ask the restaurant if they can make slight tweaks and do something special for you. And they will often oblige. But I really think the important thing is to set an example, don't preach, approach others' skepticism with empathy and just demonstrate, model this wonderful lifestyle rather than telling people what to do.

Vesanto Melina

Oh, I'll say a few things too. But that last one just brought up, Charlotte. I had a neighbor who told me, don't tell me about vegan. want to hear about it. So I said okay and I didn't. And then she had a stroke and then she started exploring recipes and what would work and she developed the best marinade for tofu. that I've ever found. And we put it in her book and put her name on it and credited her in her plant. And it was so good. Like she just went through this evolution herself. And that was wonderful. She was kind of proud to have that in her book. The other thing is that I live in co-housing and there are co-housings in many, many states now and in six Canadian provinces. And it's a way that people used to live all the time. They'd live in a village and they had a town square and they could all get to know each other and in ours. It's like a village. We have 31 townhouses and we have a big common house and you don't have to have everybody have a wheelbarrow or a saw or whatever. A lot of things are shared or somebody will say, gee, my kid gets home from school at three, but I can't be home till four. Could anybody help? So there's all this people have been helped to get to the hospital, helped all kinds of places. I'm just had a hip replacement? Can somebody get groceries for a week for me? And people oblige, they're really happy to. So there's something called co-housing, I forget if it's.org or.com, but in so many different areas now. And it's good for seniors because, We just go out the door. And in ours, we have a lot of musicians. And so even during COVID, we had music in the courtyard at first every day. And we got really good musicians. And the other thing is, in our common house, we have something called Snacklax. And I'm not that good at doing a food demo and talking at the same time and engaging all the people. I can do two things at once very well. But in the snack luck, you can have people come, they all bring snacks. They bring vegan snacks and then they hang out and have fun together and we have a speaker. And so it's a really nice way to engage people if you've got enough room in your living room or some common room that you can and have people come and they all participate a little bit. Some people for their snack, they'll just bring a bunch of grapes. Some people will bake muffins. Anyway, it's a nice way to bring people together. And a lot of times we need to try recipes before we can want to buy every ingredient that half of them you hadn't used before. So it really makes a difference to be able to share in cooking and food prep. Yeah.

Brigitte Gemme

And in many cities, not every town, but because of cooking club, I have cooking friends all over the world now and I hear constantly that there's meetup groups and there's Facebook veg groups as well. So even if one's family is not necessarily ready to hear too much about plant powered living, then there might be other social groups that are an opportunity to create those connections and also to hone those cooking skills and get better and feel a bit more validated, right? And our nutrition.

Dr. Charlyn Black

Cooking is a great way to do that.

Brigitte Gemme

Yeah, That's fantastic. Well, speaking of connection and friendship, I have to ask this question because first of all, Vesanto and Brenda, you've written 15 books together and now bringing in Charlin. How does one write a book when one is not one, but one is 3 people together?

Vesanto Melina

Oh yeah. Well, Brandon and I have had this pattern for a long time now, 33 years, I guess it is, that we'd figure out what the chapters were. Yeah, we want to talk about all the vitamins. We want to talk about all the minerals, go through all the whole thing. We want to talk about social. And then we would divide up whatever the 12 or 14 chapters were. You take this one, I'll take this one, we'd figure out a pattern. And then we'd write our draft one, and then we'd rip each other's to shreds and go, no, we need to do this different. And very friendly, it worked out. But anyway, we'd do it that way. And with this one, And we'd have like 6 drafts at least by the end because it keeps getting better and better and better because we've got these different perspectives coming in. And so with Sharlin, we did a very similar pattern and it was wonderful because she's got this much broader perspective. So anyway, it was interesting, but it did take us a long time to do it. was really an interesting thing. Usually it takes a year to write a book. This one took two. So, Charlyn?

Dr. Charlyn Black

Well, I'll just say it was a real privilege to work with those two and that they took me in. I think I was able to make some good contributions to the board.

Vesanto Melina

You sure did. Yeah.

Dr. Charlyn Black

One of the, and we all have very different styles of approaching things. So it can be challenging. We can have, I don't think you should do it this way, but we work it out in the end. And I think bringing multiple perspectives together really builds a stronger product because I bring as an academic this formal, let's make sure the science works here. But also I thought it was fun because I was able to challenge in the write-up about plant-based. I thought it would be really important to combine, for instance, what do we know about plant-based diets and how they interact with processing of food? So I think, and we were, I think another thing I thought it was really important to talk about, what's the difference between plant-powered and plant-based? And so we had some really rich discussions about that. And that was part of the fun of writing the book. So lots of creative tension and learning. And I think we all found a way to work together with different styles. And I think the writing comes out for the better with all of those different perspectives.

Brigitte Gemme

I think the writing is very powerful. And I'm going to read a quote from the book that I think you guys can get away with writing because you are I think a lot of younger authors would not write something like this, but this is a bit of a gut punch. Do we want to spend those years feeling strong, mobile, and connected, or do we want to spend them tied to medications, medical devices, and doctor's appointments? Living longer is a common goal, but living well is what makes those years fulfilling and joyful. Amen.

Vesanto Melina

Amen. We're finding that, for example, Canada lives, Canadians live a little bit longer than Americans, and women live a little bit longer than men, maybe three or four years longer. But the last at least 13 years, and it's not getting better, can be in really poor health. for both men and women. And it's just tragic that that happens. You're tied to this very difficult lifestyle, going to doctors all the time in bed with tubes, that kind of thing. And we really want to help people be vigorous and happy playing with their grandchildren outdoors, doing the things that they thought they'd like to do when they were older. So that's been our real goal for this book. Yeah.

Brigitte Gemme

I sure hope that you have a broad audience that comes to their senses and buys into this and does it. Something that I find really important on this podcast, I bring in experts who are authorities in the field of healthy habits And I want everyone who's listening to realize that we are all a work in progress, that we all have things we're working on that we haven't quite figured out. So I want to ask you to go out on a limb and be a little bit vulnerable and tell me what's for each of you a healthy habit that you know is really important, but you're struggling to make room for it in your own life. And what are you doing about it?

Vesanto Melina

You want to start or shall I?

Dr. Charlyn Black

You go listen.

Vesanto Melina

Okay. Well, mine has been making sure I have fitness every, you know, on a regular basis. So I typically go to five fitness classes a week for seniors classes and two yoga, and I walk 11,000 steps a day. Well, my fitness program left two and a half weeks kind of holiday for the instructors. They just did that. And my legs started getting so stiff, I thought there was something wrong with it. And my husband said, I think it's because you've stopped those fitness classes. And I had some exercises, but I didn't do them. I had them on paper, but they were on my desk, but that's where they stayed. And so anyway, it was interesting. And I told my fitness instructor yesterday when I got back there and she said, oh yeah, that happens a lot. You stopped doing. So it was funny. But so I really And I'm the kind of person that needs somebody saying, you do this, lift your leg higher, step to the side, keep your whatever. I want that person telling me. Now, some people, that doesn't work at all. Like my husband would hate that. And he doesn't like to be told that, do that, do that. And what he'd rather do is go on a really long bike ride all by himself. and work in the garden, do physical work, do building. So people have their different patterns. I know quite a lot of people that don't like the fitness. They wouldn't want the Fitbit. They just like to do things with freedom. So whatever way it is, the fitness is really important. Yeah.

Dr. Charlyn Black

What about we do, Harlan? We didn't discuss this before, but mine is fitness too.

Vesanto Melina

Okay.

Dr. Charlyn Black

As an academic who sat at the computer for hours on end, and I do have a dog, thankfully, who gives me the stare when it's time to go out for walks. And I do get over 12,000 steps a day with him, but it's not enough. And so I want to be like the Santo when I grow up. I want to be.

Vesanto Melina

That's another decade, right?

Dr. Charlyn Black

And I think the going to classes is good. I do work out, I have the privilege of working out with a personal trainer a couple times a week, but that's even not enough. My favorite personal trainer moved away. So anyway, so I've got the catalog for the local community center and I'm looking into, okay, what classes can I go to on a regular basis, get them into my calendar. And this I think is good both for the social interaction, the fun, that kind of thing. So I have tried working out with exercise videos, but I really like to get out and see people and move with people and capture the energy that way. So that's what I'm working on.

Brigitte Gemme

I'm with both of you. I need to go somewhere and be told what to do and then I'm out of there. I enjoyed running, that's that running is good, but in terms of lifting weights and doing strengthening exercise and even rowing, I would not go half as hard by myself if I did it at all than I do going to the gym. So that's really a key and having those infrastructures locally available is a really big gift. So if we can enjoy it. number one, let's do it. To conclude our conversation today, and you can share some spoilers from plant-powered seniors, each of you tell me what is the one habit that you wish that our listeners today go out and experiment with. after they're done listening to this podcast? What's one thing that you feel they could do that would give them the biggest bang for their buck or that would make possibly the biggest difference in their lives?

Vesanto Melina

Yeah, I'd like people to go out and to look at plant powered seniors website and that's plant-powered seniors. And just explore around a bit because we've got lots of good stuff on that. And you might want to order that book for yourself from a lie or go to a library and get it and ask your library to get it and order one for an older person in your life. So that would be really fun for people. And it's got very good recipes, but lots of nutrition information.

Brigitte Gemme

What about you, Charlyn?

Dr. Charlyn Black

One of the chapters in the book is cooking is your superpower. So my advice is learn to make a few simple recipes at the very least that you really love, that are easy to put together. and that can really take you forward on this nutritional path. Cooking really is an important skill. It gets harder as we age. And so finding simple ways to make nutritious meals, I think, is really important. And that's one of the areas we really cover and spend a lot of time on how to do this easily. So a lot of the recipes, Vesanto encouraged us to have really easy recipes that are easy to make. You and I both love batch cooking, Brigitte. So there are many tips about how to make this lifestyle, but really learning to cook is one of the best things we can do to make it easy and make it healthy.

Brigitte Gemme

It does get, in some ways, I suppose, harder as we age to cook, but I think The 50 plus audience has a great asset in that many of them actually know how to cook far more than younger generations who have experienced a lot more ready-made meals and have been swallowed by the big takeout monster and Uber food and the others. I really sense that it's a really fantastic asset that this generation of seniors has. that they can leverage for the benefit of their own health if they can continue doing it.

Dr. Charlyn Black

Wouldn't agree more.

Brigitte Gemme

Thank you for sharing the cooking love. I am really grateful to the three of you, so Vesanto, Charlyn, and also Brenda Davis for writing this book. I am certainly going to buy several copies. I look forward to the French translations to share it with all my relatives in Tibet as well. I'm happy to work with that, to support you with that. But this is a fantastic tool that I could not recommend more that will really change lives for those who do decide to engage and work towards a plant-powered transformation in their life, to not just add more years to their lives, but add more life to their years. Thank you so much for putting out that work. And I can't wait, I have to ask, what's book number 16 going to be?

Vesanto Melina

I'm not going to do another nutritional one. I want to write a book about an Indigenous friend and her amazing life. So I'll do that with her by interviewing her and having it go automatically into words and then I can edit that.

Brigitte Gemme

Oh, that's so exciting. Charlyn, what about you? Any plans for another book?

Dr. Charlyn Black

Not right now. I'm just, I retired officially at the end of June and I'm trying to imagine what retirement might feel like, but the Santos kept me very busy this kind of thing over the past while. So yeah, I'm. I'll wait till the inspiration comes. But Brenda and I have thought that we might like to continue to work together. So yeah, I'll look forward to whatever the next big topic is.

Brigitte Gemme

I'm excited and I can't wait to cover it in another episode of the Plant Wise podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. And until next time, keep on cooking and keep on reading because that's also really good for brain health. See you soon.